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Combined Fact Finding Hearing and Final Hearing

Z

Zoso

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Good Evening Dads

Please could anybody who has had a composite Fact Finding and Final Hearing help me.

I've just had a first hearing in this set of proceedings. The allegations against me are abhorrent and it has taken 12 months to get this far.

Case is reserved to Circuit Judge. He said we need to establish the facts before case can progress, as there has already been too much delay.

A 1hr pre-hearing review is scheduled in a few months time and a three day hearing a few months after.

I thought the three day hearing was Fact Finding and final hearing. The draft order just has it as a three day final. My barrister has stated that fact finding is not ordered and would be a separate hearing.

I tried to avoid a Fact Finding due to the delay that can be associated with them, it is not that I don't want one. But now, it feels like the whole Final Hearing will be given over to her allegations.

I want there to be an end point where we get on with arrangements for the children.

Please can anybody who had a composite final hearing share what directions they got in the lead up.

Thank you
 
Hi Zoso,

My final hearing was 1 day and taken up almost entirely by allegations that were "adjourned with liberty to restore." So, I think I know what you mean.

Do you think the Judge did this because a separate FFH would have been further delay?

I think I remember another member had a hybrid hearing. Cannot remember the name or details.
 
I believe @DadLad had a composite fact find/final hearing. Sorry to hear you're still having all this. It doesn't sound like it will be a separate fact find. There should be a schedule at some point that says what is to happen each day. Eg. Allegations heard day one. Mother's submissions and cross examination and Cafcass cross examination Day 2. Father's submissions and cross examination Day 3.

Or something like that. Does the order not give more details?
 
Ash said:
I believe @DadLad had a composite fact find/final hearing. Sorry to hear you're still having all this. It doesn't sound like it will be a separate fact find. There should be a schedule at some point that says what is to happen each day. Eg. Allegations heard day one. Mother's submissions and cross examination and Cafcass cross examination Day 2. Father's submissions and cross examination Day 3.

Or something like that. Does the order not give more details?
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Morning Ash

Good point about the schedule. I think that needs to be pushed for at the pre trial review. I don't want the 3 days to be lost without a decent portion of the time being allocated to arrangements for the children.

The Order does not state FFH.

Fact Finding was discussed at the last hearing from which this Order was made and I believe the court intends to hear allegations from both sides with cross examination. But, there is no mention of FFH in the Order, it just says 3 day Final Hearing.

The other side drafted the Order and I have queried the omission of FF with my barrister, please see reply below:

'There is no Fact Finding Hearing, it is a final hearing that will consider the allegations. A Fact Finding Hearing is only set out in the order when there is to be a separate hearing'

My Ex' position statement for the last hearing did not mention FFH. (Her barrister brought it up as a consideration for the judge)

There is an Annex 5 Police Disclosure Order and para 7 which mentions FFH has been deliberately omitted.

Now the Draft Order does not mention FFH

This is all very confusing and is there an ulterior motive to this approach from the other side.

Also, can findings be made at a hearing that is presented like this ?

Thanks for your help.
 
Resolute said:
Hi Zoso,

My final hearing was 1 day and taken up almost entirely by allegations that were "adjourned with liberty to restore." So, I think I know what you mean.

Do you think the Judge did this because a separate FFH would have been further delay?

I think I remember another member had a hybrid hearing. Cannot remember the name or details.
Click to expand...
Morning Resolute

Yes delay is the worry.

There has been massive delay so far in this case which is impacting the kids.

I have nothing to hide from a FFH.

Thanks
 
Zoso said:
Morning Resolute

Yes delay is the worry.

There has been massive delay so far in this case which is impacting the kids.

I have nothing to hide from a FFH.

Thanks
Click to expand...
I agree with Ash about the schedule. It would be really useful if the next hearing set out what is to happen on each day of the final hearing.

Your ex has the status quo in her favour. Her easy option would be to make cross examination of you go on as long as possible. Leaving no time to address arrangements for the children properly. If she can keep up uncertainty on the allegations it will be difficult to decide in your favour.

It would also work well for her to hold some allegations/docs back for the day. Dropping extra stuff to deal with would also create delay. I wonder if your barrister could get something about this into the order. Something that clearly limits her to allegations in the Scott Schedule.

Pre Trial Review sounds like a Fact Finding term.

How are Cafcass meant to make recommendations before her allegations are dealt with? Surely they will assess the allegations as live risks and go against you as a result. Or, do they make 2 sets of recommendations? One for allegations upheld, the other for allegations dismissed?
 
At my FHDRA a fact finding hearing was initially dismissed. The ex solicitor then asked for a composite final hearing to which the judge agreed. I didn't understand what this actually was at the time.

My composite final hearing was a wolf dressed in sheepskin. This was in fact a 4 day fact finding hearing and not a final hearing.

Allegations were then cleared and then a dra/ final hearing happened last month.
 
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