CMS payments

[Dad86]

Hi - I am after some advice or experiences from you all. My ex and I for over 9 years have agreed between ourselves a monthly payment that is paid direct to her bank account. There was a CMS account active throughout those years but it was agreed between us a set amount to pay and my ex has never approached me to change this amount.
I would contribute extra for school uniform, school equipment and trips.

We are currently going through court proceedings for other issues and off the back of that and what seems in retaliation , I have now received a letter from CMS advising that she has been in touch with them and advised that I have not been paying the agreed amount. This isn't the case, I have always paid the amount agreed between us and on time.

She has requested that I pay 6 months backdated and also use the collect and pay service going forward and the recommended CMS amount (which adds 20% onto the CMS amount). I simply cannot afford to pay this. If she wants to go through CMS I accept to pay the monthly amount, but I cannot pay backdated payments that I don't think I owe or an extra 20% monthly.

I have tried to speak to the CMS today, who said that as she has never closed the CMS account I am liable to pay the amount that they calculate even though we have a written agreement via text of the amount which I have been paying. They have also said I will have to use their collect and pay service as I have been in breach and not paying the recommended amount. I do feel the CMS are saying this as they can make a 24% profit from the payment.

I intend to submit my evidence to them but wondered what other Fathers experiences were of this.

 

[Peanut 21]

CMS = Criminal money spongers.

They're a government body so are shoddy.
Do you have bank statements showing the payments going out to your ex?
You can certainly appeal their decision.
I'm pretty sure there is a form you fill in to do this. Have you looked?

 

[Dad86]

CMS = Criminal money spongers.

They're a government body so are shoddy.
Do you have bank statements showing the payments going out to your ex?
You can certainly appeal their decision.
I'm pretty sure there is a form you fill in to do this. Have you looked?

We have to submit evidence which we will do in the next day or so.

I was completely shocked that even though an agreed amount between parents was in play because the ex has decided to now go through CMS she can back date six months of payments rather than go from date of letter for future payments.

She also seems to have requested that it goes through CMS rather than direct meaning I pay an extra 20% a month for them to handle the payments.

 

[Peanut 21]

Generally it shouldn't go to direct pay unless the paying parent hasn't paid or is refusing to.
Appeal the decision ASAP as you have 30 days after receiving the letter.
It's a common dirty tactic of exs. My partners ex recently did the same, applying for direct pay. They split up a similar time frame as you. These types of women never move on.

 

[DoesHisBest]

Hello Dad86,

From your post the CMS case was active through out.
Under direct pay (Paying direct to the RP, [residential parents] account). The CMS does not moniter payments. The ex get a letter or a phone call every year, on the around the Annual Reveiw date, to check if payments are being recived thats about it.

Every year you would have had an Annual reveiw caculating your payments, based on HMRC data. This is posted to you. Or avalible on the CMS Portal.

Now when she contacted them, They should have written to you. Regarding the aligations she made, and provided you 14 days to provided evidance you had infact made payment (Provision for infomation).

However they may have just written to you saying your payments have changed (Legal notice). This provides the same 14 days to argue your case. The date the payment change started is called the effective date. It is then caculated to your next Annual review date.

What you need to do: (From the effective date in the letter).
1. Be clear on all the facts for your own peice of mind.
- How much did your last Annual review say you should have been paying? Were you paying it?
- If you paid bank transfer, was the transfer refrence "Child maintance or the CMS case number"?
- Can you provide bank statments showing these payments being made regular?
- Can you provide any screen shots of emails or text messages regarding any conversation regarding maintance payments?

2. Write to the CMS a letter "Mandantory reconsideration". Stick to facts (Its no easy, its hard not to rant). You normally have 28 days to submit from the date of the notice. But you can appeal late any decision made within the last 18 month. (Just give a reson for the late submission).
in Annual review document refrenced........ You said pay x = I paid x. or Y. I paid Y because in text message/email dated.... Miss blah and I agreed this as a private arangment between us.
You said I paid 0 from ../../.. to ../../.. But my bank statments prove I paid x from ../../.. to ../../..
I would like these amount included in the caculation, as I belive that the caculation was made in abcence of the facts. By not taking these amount into account, I am being charge more than my legal obligation, based on here say.
Send as evidance "COPIES ONLY" of everything you have as evidance. (You can include there own documents).
You could also point out that the compliant was made out of spite, due to other legal issues. (She would have to make the same complaint to the CMS 3 time or more, for you to report the matter to the police as harrasment).

3. If you do not get notifcation regarding a mandantory request that the CMS have to look at under the law. Write another complaint, that the CMS are deniying your legal right, and abusing there power by doing so.

3a. After they have looked at it, you will recive a notice. Yes we have included the payments. Or no we havent because.

3b. Fill in a SSCS2 and apply for a tribunal. It cost nothing, if you have recived a notice use the number provided on the form. If no notice provided state this, and include your second complaint as evidance. Also write to your MP, doesnt always work but anything helps.

4. In the mean time. Your current liability and arrears are veiwed separately. As long as an offer of payment covers the current liability, and makes head way with any arrears the CMS will negotiate. Again write to them and agree a more afordable amount. With arrears they will attempt to collect within 2 years. So the requested payments can be impossible to pay. In part it is a scare tactic.

However any part or missed payment before you get this done, is veiwed as a missed payment. They can simply go for an attachment of earnings.
The maximum they can take is 40% of your net income by law.

If you do not miss a payment for 6 months. You can ask to be put back onto direct pay. As that is your porogative. Saving the 20% fee on the maintance caculation. The fee is a punishment, if you are not making regular payments.

I hope some of this is helpful to you.

Good luck getting things sorted out.

 

[Dad86]

Generally it shouldn't go to direct pay unless the paying parent hasn't paid or is refusing to.
Appeal the decision ASAP as you have 30 days after receiving the letter.
It's a common dirty tactic of exs. My partners ex recently did the same, applying for direct pay. They split up a similar time frame as you. These types of women never move

Hello Dad86,

From your post the CMS case was active through out.
Under direct pay (Paying direct to the RP, [residential parents] account). The CMS does not moniter payments. The ex get a letter or a phone call every year, on the around the Annual Reveiw date, to check if payments are being recived thats about it.

Every year you would have had an Annual reveiw caculating your payments, based on HMRC data. This is posted to you. Or avalible on the CMS Portal.

Now when she contacted them, They should have written to you. Regarding the aligations she made, and provided you 14 days to provided evidance you had infact made payment (Provision for infomation).

However they may have just written to you saying your payments have changed (Legal notice). This provides the same 14 days to argue your case. The date the payment change started is called the effective date. It is then caculated to your next Annual review date.

What you need to do: (From the effective date in the letter).
1. Be clear on all the facts for your own peice of mind.
- How much did your last Annual review say you should have been paying? Were you paying it?
- If you paid bank transfer, was the transfer refrence "Child maintance or the CMS case number"?
- Can you provide bank statments showing these payments being made regular?
- Can you provide any screen shots of emails or text messages regarding any conversation regarding maintance payments?

2. Write to the CMS a letter "Mandantory reconsideration". Stick to facts (Its no easy, its hard not to rant). You normally have 28 days to submit from the date of the notice. But you can appeal late any decision made within the last 18 month. (Just give a reson for the late submission).
in Annual review document refrenced........ You said pay x = I paid x. or Y. I paid Y because in text message/email dated.... Miss blah and I agreed this as a private arangment between us.
You said I paid 0 from ../../.. to ../../.. But my bank statments prove I paid x from ../../.. to ../../..
I would like these amount included in the caculation, as I belive that the caculation was made in abcence of the facts. By not taking these amount into account, I am being charge more than my legal obligation, based on here say.
Send as evidance "COPIES ONLY" of everything you have as evidance. (You can include there own documents).
You could also point out that the compliant was made out of spite, due to other legal issues. (She would have to make the same complaint to the CMS 3 time or more, for you to report the matter to the police as harrasment).

3. If you do not get notifcation regarding a mandantory request that the CMS have to look at under the law. Write another complaint, that the CMS are deniying your legal right, and abusing there power by doing so.

3a. After they have looked at it, you will recive a notice. Yes we have included the payments. Or no we havent because.

3b. Fill in a SSCS2 and apply for a tribunal. It cost nothing, if you have recived a notice use the number provided on the form. If no notice provided state this, and include your second complaint as evidance. Also write to your MP, doesnt always work but anything helps.

4. In the mean time. Your current liability and arrears are veiwed separately. As long as an offer of payment covers the current liability, and makes head way with any arrears the CMS will negotiate. Again write to them and agree a more afordable amount. With arrears they will attempt to collect within 2 years. So the requested payments can be impossible to pay. In part it is a scare tactic.

However any part or missed payment before you get this done, is veiwed as a missed payment. They can simply go for an attachment of earnings.
The maximum they can take is 40% of your net income by law.

If you do not miss a payment for 6 months. You can ask to be put back onto direct pay. As that is your porogative. Saving the 20% fee on the maintance caculation. The fee is a punishment, if you are not making regular payments.

I hope some of this is helpful to you.

Good luck getting things sorted out.

Thanks really helpful. Can I ask - if parents agreed between themselves the amount to be paid each month will this stand? My ex would have also been receiving the annual review letters and only at this point in 9 years told the CMS that I have not been making the required payments and that I now owe backdated payments.

Confused about the fact that they can say I owe back dated payments when my ex and I had agreed between ourselves the amount she was happy to receive monthly and never made me aware she would prefer to go by the CMS amount

 

[Ash]

The CMS tend to say they prefer parents to make family based arrangements - and you had an agreement between yourselves. However the issue is that a CMS case was already open! So you should have only been paying the CMS amount and not contributing towards other things privately.

Technically the CMS is correct. You have underpaid the assessed amount while a case was in place and therefore they decide you need to pay arrears and pay the rate they assess.

I think your best bet is to send all the evidence you can, that you had a family based agreement dating from x date (which texts to show this), which included paying x amount a month plus you paying for additional items for school and clothing etc. Send all the receipts you can to show what you have bought/paid for. Did you buy things directly yourself like shoes? Or did you just send the ex the money when she asked for it?

Also include all records of payments sent to the ex for anything.

Some Dads have been caught out like this before, because a bank transfer of money doesn't prove it was for child maintenance. So it's recommended that all standing orders for privately agreed CM have a reference CHILD MAINTENANCE on them.

Hopefully as part of your evidence or a mandatory consideration, they will see that you were meeting the required amount via paying for extra things. However you will still have to pay the backdated arrears now or they will chase you up no end and it can get really nasty. And then claim it back later when it's sorted out. How much are the arrears they're asking for?

This is very common although backfired on my ex. She was demanding extra or she would go to the CMS so I went first and got an assessment which was a lot less than I was paying under our private agreement! The key with a private agreement is to always make sure it's about the same as CMS or a £1 over or something and has the reference Child Maintenance.

Technically, if paying child maintenance, that is supposed to cover everything - uniform, shoes, school trips. So don't give her a penny more now. You'll need to find a way to clear the backdated payment and cover the new one until it's sorted out.