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Childcare Arrangements

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CMCuk1

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Hi,

New to the forum/site.

Looking for help/advice/information/experience… all of the above

Ex partner works for the Police, naturally works unsociable hours as part of a shift pattern.

Trying to arrange childcare is becoming more frustrating by the day, in short she says that I “will have the kids everytime she’s working”!!.

I have asked if we can arrange to get a rota in place to make life easier, proposed ideas i.e:
Week 1 - dad 4 days mum 3 days
Week 2 - mum 4 days dad 3 days
Week 3 - same as week 1
Week 4 - same as week 2

This kind of idea to split parenting 50/50 and also give us both equal weekdays/weekends child free so to speak.

However this proving difficult, as she works shift pattern I’m faced with a constant “no that doesn’t suit me etc”

I would like to avoid family court etc as I believe this should be resolved between us without the need for this.

Has anyone here been through something similar and what were the outcomes and if this does end up in court how would it be favoured?

Thanks in advance
 
It sounds like she's acting as if you're still together in terms of if you were you'd naturally look after the kids when she's at work and vice versa.
Do you have anyone who can help with childcare? Family or friends?
Does it impact your work?
Was she controlling in the relationship? She sounds it.
You could write your proposals to her. If she refuses you could then try mediation. If you do have to go to court in the future you can then prove you have tried to resolve this yourself.
Ash on here is good at writing template emails 👌
 
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Hi

Thanks for the reply,

Yes I have help with childcare if needs be, my work is like most Monday - Friday ….

I just keep getting the push back because of the shift pattern sometimes includes weekday nights, and the response of “I have no one to have them so you will need to”…

I personally don’t think it’s fair, I’ve said many a time “things are different now and it’s upto you to arrange necessary child care like we both will during holidays etc” but it never seems to materialise.

Just wondered if kind of legally it would be enforced in her favour if it went to court due to nature of work etc?

Yes you are correct on the Controlling part!!!!
 
This is difficult because although it is unfair you're in a great position in that you're seeing your kids. There's many a dad who aren't seeing theirs.
I'm not minimising your problem as your ex is being unreasonable.
How old are the kids?
In terms of if you went to court....this may make her more difficult. If you went for 50/50 and propose your split she will come back with her proposal. There should be a compromise and it shouldn't all be based on her work shift pattern.
I recommend getting some legal advice. Most solicitors offer free 30 mins and give a quote for potential proceedings. If you do this thank them for the advice and say you need to think about it.
 
The kids are 12 & 10.

I agree completely just a new situation to me and have tried to be as reasonable as possible, and point out the fact it has to be fair for us both!

Is there any standard kind of template to use as a proposal or anything that should or shouldn’t be in there?

Thanks again
 
OK, so if there was a court order there's potentially 4-6 years left due to their age. Some of the others may have a template email. Ash?
 
Just caught up with this. Tricky with their ages. My first thought was - how are the kids finding it? I had something similar when my son was young. I was getting to see a lot of my son but it was all on Mum's terms, to fit around her work and social life. Child wasn't happy as he was being bounced around so much. I was basically being treated as a babysitter.

Your kids are older. To be honest, courts want people to agree things. If both of you agreed to the current situation, the courts wouldn't have a problem with it either. The problem I encountered was, when I did go to court eventually (no option - she witheld child permanently and wanted a new life) - my ex became very hostile and created a lot of hostility and drama around my son being with me - and wouldn't budge an inch on any flexibility (one extreme to the other!).

So how exactly does it work out each week? The main issue is your ex could get difficult and say ok I've organised childcare for them when I'm working, they live with me, you can see them one night a week when it suits me. If she did that, then you'd have grounds to apply to court though.

But their ages. With the 10 year old - fine - get something sorted before they get older. The 12 year old - there are arguments for flexibility with that age and kids "having their own life" and their wishes are taken seriously. Their wishes of course are always influenced by Mum.

But if you're trying to negotiate and she won't reach any kind of compromise ..............And although you may be getting to see plenty of them, presumably you only see them when she's working? Or do you get other time as well. Or does she want them with her when she's not working?

I think the first thing to try and work out is - what would work. It's a co parenting issue basically - one works shifts, the other doesn't. If she has a regular shift pattern over say 4 weeks you can work out a schedule around it. But if it's all over the place shifts then - trickier.

What do you think she would say if you proposed something like - a regular stable pattern of two midweek nights with each parent and every other week-end with each parent. But that you would also be happy to step in if she is working on her midweek days/weekends?

In other words they'd have a regular stable schedule with you - plus additional time when your ex is working. I don't think she'd agree would she?

But technically you could ask the court for that and say you're happy to step in when she's working as well, or alternatively her organise her own childcare for the times she's working - but your schedule stays constant.

What they would try and do is get you both to agree something at the first hearing. If no agreement then it goes to final hearing.

I'll wait to see what you say about how the current schedule works out at the moment (ie how child focused it is or isn't).
 
Ash,
The kids both seem ok with it, neither have said anything or acted in anyway that makes me think they are not ok with things, the only things they always ask are when they are going back to mum "when do we see you next" , id ideally like to come to some arrangement that is "fixed" so that its easy for the kids and everyone to know who they are seeing and when.
At present its 90% around her shifts, which only suits her, her shifts can be weekdays 5 days 7am-5pm, 4 afternoons 2pm - 10pm, nights, 4 nights 7pm - 7am, spread over each day of the week.
She wants them with her when she is not at work, the issue is more that its massively one sided the arrangement, in short she basically has two weekends a month not in work, which are consecutive weekends, I have said that we should alternate weekends with/without the kids so that we both have a fair share and equally in turn this would be the same for weekdays, I think her shift pattern is based on a 12 week pattern, we have done the alternate weekends kind of thing for a short period around 7-8 weeks, but now she is saying this does not work for her, because she does not want to have to ask her family to have the kids on a weekend, which is basically one weekend a month she has to arrange, because its not fair on them having the kids etc. My take on this is, its just an excuse to be awkward which is completely the type of person she is, if it is not her way then its somehow wrong!! Even arguing that alternate weekends is not fair, even it could not be any fairer, equal number of weeks in a year so literally the definition of fair!
I have suggested 4/3 days with each, an even like you suggest, 2 weekday nights with each and alternate weekends, but because she would need to sort out childcare from time to time it does not "work for her", id be happy to do something like this, as its very simple completely fair and we all know were stand and are with the childcare including the kids. She would not agree for me to have them more than her ...
I feel like im banging my head in the wall with it all, its like speaking to a child half the time.
I hope this helps to explain the current situation, if I have missed anything apologies in advance.
 
It's a real problem - and a court may have problems working it out too! I also think it's important the kids know where they are going to be when - especially as they get older as they'll start having their own plans and need to know who to ask for a lift etc on certain days.

So when she's on afternoon shifts and nights, the kids will need to be with you overnight - is that right?

If you had two consecutive week-ends each, that wouldn't be so bad as long as you get midweek time in between.

To give an example - what was the kids routine with you for the two weeks before Christmas holidays? ie which days, how long - was it to and from school?
 
I agree,
This is what I have been trying to get across, and also better to get things sorted now, so that its fixed going forwards, rather than figure it out as it comes, as that will just be a bigger headache than it already is.
So the two weeks prior to Christmas were;
Week 1 - Me Monday/Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday - Mum - Friday/Saturday/Sunday
Week 2 - Me Monday/Tuesday/Wednesday/Saturday/Sunday - Mum - Thursday/Friday
Week 3 - Me Monday/Tuesday/Friday/Saturday/Sunday - Mum - Wednesday/Thursday
I hope this helps
 
So basically they are living with you mostly? Most of the midweek time and two consecutive week-ends each? It doesn't look too bad to me actually. What happens in school holidays? Half the holidays each? ie split the holiday weeks in half?
 
Holidays have been mainly sticking to the shift pattern....
Following the shift pattern yes they would be with me more than her.
 
That must be a tough schedule in school holidays. The point of school holidays is - you get a break from the term time schedule - more relaxed time with the kids there for a longer period and away for a longer period.
 
I can see it's not a kind of regular schedule though - no real continuity. I can kind of see both sides of it. If you had a regular schedule, she'd have more time midweek and need childcare in place. You'd have every other week-end but they wouldn't see Mum every other week-end - they'd be cared for by someone else. However - spending time with grandparents and other family members is normal and can be good for them.

She must get 5 or 6 weeks holidays a year, so if she took those in school holidays, you could have a full 8 or 9 days with them there and the same away, at Christmas and Easter. And similar in Summer holidays.
 
That’s the main issue, it’s not regular and no continuity, the above shift pattern is just a small portion of the 12 week rota.

That was my point that Grandparents and other family members are all part of growing up, and spending time together, the weekends where childcare is required is only a third of the day.

A number of times now she seems to be under the impression that her job and employers (police) would add some sort of weight to her side if it went to court, my thoughts were that surely the court would decide that 50/50 is the most fair (obvious), and even alternate weekends , rather than “you will stick to my shift pattern regardless”
 
You could apply to court for 50/50. But basically you'd be saying you want less time - which is unusual! Yes the argument would be a stable schedule for the children in both homes (or at least in your home). Ideally you need sole residency - the kids living with you and proposing a schedule of when they see their Mother.

When you turn it around like that, it becomes interesting. We've had cases of Dads with tricky work schedules wanting 50/50 and the Mum saying no he can only have them to a set schedule and less time if he's working. One Dad in particular was in that position and did get shared care, with a four week pattern/schedule. It wasn't quite as standard. The "non resident" parent's availability tends to take priority. But technically you're both equal and it's shared care.

I think it could at least be tweaked or something specific in for the holidays.

The first thing you'd be expected to do is try mediation though.
 
As Ash has said, you could potentially go down the lives with dad route. Then she effectively is the one with contact (sorry bad word we try not to use) time.
Yes it'll be hard being a single dad, fitting around your work and commitments, but you'd be one of the lucky ones.
OK she's in the police but she has very random shift patterns which are effecting the kids.
Let her threaten you with the whole 'I'm in the police' BS. That's all it is. Threats.
If you can prove you will be giving your kids a calm and stable routine that weighs in your favour.
 
Thanks both of you…

It really is appreciated.

I just want them to both have a mum and dad in their lives equally, but on a basis that’s fair, it can’t be one sided and determined by one’s work pattern, there has to be compromise from both to make it work!!
 
CMCuk1 said:
Thanks both of you…

It really is appreciated.

I just want them to both have a mum and dad in their lives equally, but on a basis that’s fair, it can’t be one sided and determined by one’s work pattern, there has to be compromise from both to make it work!!
Click to expand...
They like to use the work thing and make out they're martyr's. My partners ex always uses the "I work full time and have to look after the kids" playing the victim whilst stopping the kids seeing their dad. Makes me sick.
I think you have to mentally prepare yourself for potential agro. Plenty of support on here to help you through each step.
 
The work pattern will come into it to a degree. And for that reason asking for the kids to live with you and spend time with the Mother, wouldn't be a good idea anyway, because it would come across as "punishing" her for her "worthy" job. So yes shared care is better, whether the time is equal or not - and you'll come across better.

Have you tried mediation yet? Or tried drawing up something on paper as a proposal you think would work, be best for the kids and has some flexibility (carefully worded flexibility)? And sending it to her? Talking about it only can quickly lead to a "no". Having something on paper and saying - take some time to think about and see what you think - means she takes time to think about it rather than just react with a no. She might still say no.

If you could pm me the full 12 week schedule I could have a look.

The difficulty with applying to court is - Cafcass could say - what are you complaining about? You're sharing the care, your job has stable hours, hers doesn't, the kids need to see parents working amicably to support them. They might see that as more important than a regular schedule. But there should be some adjustment possibly if they are bounced around a lot. Single consecutive night in separate homes regularly isn't good for them for example.

Cafcass might just say - if the kids say they don't know when they will be there, why don't you just explain it's Mum's job?

It would be better if you can get something agreed on paper without going to court. But if you can't ...........Well it may need applying to court but you would need to have a good proposal to submit that is reasonable, logical and child focused and actually feasible.
 
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