Child arrangements

[barna.thurz]

Hi Everyone

I have some questions incase yous have some experience.
I have 2 children 9 months and 2 year old.
Been separated for 6 months. Things where fine I seen my kids on a daily basis. Due to the fact that I still cares for her children too. School runs doctors clubs etc ......
3 weeks ago she had an argument with me and stopped contact.
Now I am approaching it with legal help.
I have had my lawyer send letter to her to try sort out arrangements.
I believe she had spoke and acted out of anger and now she fears that if I take kids I won't return them to gain revenge.
Although I am very angry with her I would never use the kids. But she refusing to let me take them. And she will not agree to shared custody. She is offering me the weekends.
I am taking it to court for 50/50 custody.
I believe a child should have both parents equal as they would if the parents where together.


Question

How long can it take to have a court order in place?
Is there away to make it faster at all?
If there is a reason court would rule in her favour why would that be?
Dose the court believe that 50/50 is the best decision where possible?
I don't believe my children should be in that environment. She doesn't really care for the kids. Instead she use them where she wants people to feel sorry for her or looking for people to tell her what a good mother she is for the way they look. There is no rules in place there is constant fighting with in other sibling. Aggressive behaviour shown from older siblings 10/12/14 fizical fights on a daily basis. I don't want my kids having to grow up listening to that as an example.
It may sound simple but it's not the house is out of control. What do I do? Phoned social work but they haven't done anything. I am lost of how to get them out of that situation.

 

[Ash]

Hi. So does she have older children as well with another Dad, is that what you mean?
For now - take the week-ends offered (does that mean every week-end)? It's always best to take any time offered, even if you still apply to court for more time. It's also important the children don't go too long without seeing you or it can cause them emotional distress. With the two year old you would get a good order, but with a very young child the court will sometimes only order a few hours a week (and no overnights) unless the Mother agrees to more than that. This is because of the breast feeding principle up to the age of two. If the Mother isn't breast feeding you can make the argument you shared the care before separation and are experienced in feeding the younger one and have all the correct bottle sterilising equipment etc. Some Dads even do an online childcare course to argue their case for 50/50 with a very young child. (Have a look into that).

What was the argument about? Do you think she tried to pick an argument (or create one) specifically to have a reason to stop the children coming?

She is unlikely to agree to shared care/lives with both parents (custody is the old term before "residence" - it's now "lives with"), because then she'd get no child support. It's an issue - the less time you have the kids, the more money she gets.

That's one thing wrong with the system - that time is correlated with Child Maintenance payments. Which is ridiculous but also if it's 50/50 parents also share the costs of everything so there shouldn't need to be any CM anyway.

The first step is mediation. You're legally required to have had a MIAM before you can apply to court anyway (the MIAM is the first appointment on your own where they explain what mediation is and you explain the situation). After that they invite the ex to the next mediation session. If she refuses to go or doesn't turn up then you get signed off mediation and can apply to court.

I would actually give this go in this situation. The more conflict there is between you, the more resistant she will be to the kids being with you, and yes she is likely to stop them seeing you if you apply to court.

In the worst case scenario, some ex's make allegations of abuse when you apply to court - then the court sometimes only allows supervised time in a contact centre until all matters have been investigated - which can be months. In other words you're then treated as guilty until proven innocent. One reason this happens (if they are false allegations) is because the Mother is then entitled to legal aid and a free lawyer, if they claim DV. It's a tricky area because solicitors act for their clients best interests, not the kids best interests, and can encourage a Mother by asking things like - did he ever shout at you? Then say that's controlling behaviour and tell them they can claim DV and get legal aid.

So you need to be aware of the pitfalls of the system and try and negotiate them carefully.

Best option is to try and get on with the Mother if at all possible. It's normal for separated couples to have some animosity - it's why people separate - but the court would expect both parents to try and get on and put the kids interests first.

Which is why a Dad applying to court needs to be whiter than white and show they are the one trying to be reasonable and focusing on co parenting. So from now on, any communications need to be polite, courteous (however you feel) and keep the personal out of it. Ideally by text or email. You've already had a solicitor send a letter so that's a start.

But you need to be careful with verbal communications either face to face or on the phone. If there's an argument she could accuse you of something.

I agree with you entirely - it should be 50/50 shared care.

Mediation can actually help, if both parents are willing to try it. The idea is it can rebuild trust (so neither is worried the other will try and keep the kids) and try and get both to see how to put the kids first. Mothers frequently don't want to try mediation. a) because it costs money b) because they think they are more important and can dictate the situation c) because they just don't want to and possession is 9/10ths of the law. They are not supposed to withold a child, but the court doesn't punish them for this. Eventually you would get to see the kids again and get a good order - providing you're careful along the way.

Unfortunately, in the post separation world, what would normally be normal arguments between a couple, becomes - the man being an abuser for arguing. It's an unequal system. Partly because there is so much publicity about women being victims.

Legal aid for family cases was scrapped in about 2014 - after that the only legal aid available was in cases of DV. As a result, allegations of DV went up about 300%. To get legal aid for court and keep control.

If a Dad witheld the kids he'd be accused of abduction and the Mother could send the Police to retrieve them and it looks bad in court. It's not a fair system. If a Mother witholds the kids she can say "I'm safeguarding them". And get away with that until it's proved there are no safeguarding issues with Dad.

So tread carefully.

My suggestion right now is - try to get on with her (if that's possible) and reassure her you're not trying to take the kids away. Accept seeing them every week-end if that's what she's offering. And say to her you want to draw up a proper parenting agreement at mediation so you can both trust each other and work things out.

See how that goes. Of course she may have picked a fight deliberately for some other reason. But take the offer of week-ends for now. Is that every week-end or every other week-end? Every other week-end isn't enough - especially for the 9 month old who needs to keep up the bond regularly to avoid separation anxiety.

Is there anything you could offer to help her with? Lifts places? That's what I ended up doing when my son was a baby. Just put up with being told what to do re bottles etc and gave her lifts places, to keep things fairly amicable and keep my son out of drama. She didn't have family in the area so was happy to have me "babysit" and have my son overnight a couple of times a week so she could have a social life, and needed lifts places. But I think most ex's have family support or can drive themselves.

In terms of sending emails or texts, it's usually recommended to do BIFF ones. Brief, Informative, Friendly, Formal - as if writing to a business acquaintance. Keeps the personal out of it and avoids text arguments. However angry and frustrated you feel, keep that for on here, or punch a cushion! And keep the communication with her as BIFF. It helps detach from the ex as well.

I found it actually can help them be more amenable too. The odd bit of flattery can help too - not obvious - but things like - I know you're their Mum and they need you and you're a good Mum. I think they need Dad too and for both of us to get on for their sake. Or - I know you need to manage a lot of things at home so am happy to help out with anything if you need a lift, or be flexible occasionally, but I think the kids need a regular schedule as well so they don't get anxious about not seeing both of us regularly. That kind of thing.

Regarding your concerns at her home. I don't think social services would do very much unless you had evidence of real risk of harm. Eg a video of her hitting them, or nursery or school making a referral with concerns. Having said that, if you have any real concerns then you should go to social services.

Be aware though that social services are trained to a 1970s feminist model of "Mum knows best". They will never take kids away from a Mum - they'd say "Mum needs some support" and offer her support. They seem to have this inbuilt.

Your ex would probably know it's you made the referral as well and the hostility increase. And she is likely to make accusations back and accuse you of something.

It's really difficult. Of course you want to know the kids are safe and being looked after. Do either of them go to nursery at all?

 

[Ash]

Anyway for now, accept the week-ends and start mediation. It's unlikely she'll agree to 50/50 but see if the mediator can make any progress. A parenting plan/agreement can include all kinds of things - like agreeing on bedtimes, what to do in case of emergencies, who pays for what. And while it's not legally binding (ie she can just do something different whatever is agreed) it can help if you then need to apply to court later (as it proves what was agreed before so shows she had no concerns about you at that time).

Just read back and see you've already called social services. Yep. They are overloaded, and frankly not fit for purpose. And my experience is, if the report is from the other parent, they put it down to "arguments between parents" and don't take it seriously.

So tread carefully and take things one step at a time. That's hard when your kids are being witheld and you feel desperate to see them.

Book yourself a MIAM asap. Google mediators in the area, phone round them and see who sounds best on the phone and/or has the earliest appointment. You go to this on your own. Don't tell the ex you've gone to mediation. Explain the situation to the mediator. The mediator will say they will contact the ex and invite her.

At the same time I'd start with a brief email or text to her along the lines of:

"Dear Ex Name
I very much want us to resolve things and get on as parents and am willing to discuss anything you want to discuss. I accept your suggestion of having the children at week-ends, but also think it would be good for us, to try mediation where we can draw up a parenting agreement and try and resolve any worries we might both have. I am sure we both want the best for the children and maybe need an impartial person to help guide us to working things out for them."

Again don't tell her you're having/have had the mediation in this. After you've had your MIAM and a response from your ex, you might drop in that you've started mediation and the mediator will be inviting her to attend.

If she won't go or it ends at the first session, then the mediator will sign you off and you can apply to court.

If you do apply to court you should absolutely apply for 50/50. Even if you don't get it, it gives you room to negotiate down to say 40/60.

And I do know of a Dad who got a 50/50 order for a very young child under a year old. He was positive and proactive with the court in proving his abilities with childcare and even took his bottle sterilising kit to court with him to demonstrate how it worked . He said his other argument was he'd already brought up one child before and done all this before. Presumably you have too, if you have a two year old.

Family court and the world of separated parenting are extremely strange. In the real world we're all equal - until it comes to separation and then "Mother knows best". Cafcass, the court social workers are immensely powerful. They can be very supportive of Dads - they can also be very biased towards Mothers. The golden rule with court and Cafcass is "never say anything negative about the ex". Keep everything about the best interests of the children and what's best for them. If you say anything negative about the ex (even if it's true) Cafcass see it as conflict for the child - parents at war kind of thing. And then they can just give the kids to the Mother to keep them out of conflict.

If you get a good order and have the kids regularly, you can keep an eye on things, and teach them how a normal life is, in the hope this will give them strengths and stay with them throughout life. We can't change the other parent and their ways and it's accepted both parents may have different parenting styles.

I would also be concerned about the environment with the kids fighting etc. But there isn't much you can do about that right now. Best thing you can do is - try to calm things down, try to get on with the Mother (bite your tongue) and if she won't do something reasonable, then apply to court.

 

[barna.thurz]

She picked a fight because I asked to have them for an other night due to the fact we spent a full day at hers celebrating her daughter's birthday. Unable to spend time with them. Then she shouted at me all-sorts
But it's really just down to power trip. Then latter she realised that keeping the kids from me wasn't the best idea. But it was too late because now she paranoid that I will keep them to get back at her. I always put kids first even tho she doesn't deserve to be a mum.
I have never been abusive in anyway she is just a control freak and she lost control as I started to talk to other people and I wasn't there all the time I would instead just take the kids away so I didn't have to see her. So been real this is all just so she can feel she is in charge. But she doesn't care about kids all together there is 7 kids in that house. They all out of control fighting arguing daily. And she doesn't care as long is she looks good from the outside. She had the cheek to tell me she will contact CSA for child support.
I paid her gas and electric ever since I was away. £3000 total as I have cancelled it now.
I have kitted out 2 of her kids with designer clothes. £1500 I have sent her £1300 when she needed it. Given her daughter £400 for her birthday. And what ever else I can't even remember. Yet she has a cheek to turn around telling people I don't provide.
And even now that she is keeping my kids from me I text her asking if they need anything. Picking up nappies and wipes.
And you know the best of it is that doesn't matter how good you treat her she still no f**k given. Yet she doesn't mind putting the kids through all this time away from dad.
I offered to take care of all transportation cost. I even volunteer to give her child support. But no this is all about her pride. And so people feel how hard done to she is.
And yes she has kids with different father's.
But only other one that takes 2 and his only doing it for the show and only take them as little as possible so she doesn't care about that. But she wants her kids to feel as if there is only that supports them. She really is a mind f**k. But let's face it it's the world we are in. No doubt there will be an aligation just why not. I really don't know what to do anymore.

 

[barna.thurz]

I have I brought her kids up too.
The funny thing is she got a son at 10 and she never even seen the school he goes to.
I have attended hospital appointments clubs.
Went on school trips.
You know I was always called dad by him. As he never had one in his life. And she just took that from him. Him who isn't even my biologycal son I have schoold reached. Treated like my own I even dissowned my own father because he couldn't accept my stepchildren. And this is what I get. I will never understand. Because the damage is now done to them. And she just continues by keeping them from me. I wish I was Rich enough to get this fixed as women should be published for keeping children from dad's without a cause. But funny there is nothing until you go to court. But all of a sudden your this and that. And even funnier that these days they don't even have to prove anything just say oh he done this or done that.

 

[Ash]

Just send her that email. One step at a time. Even if it doesn't result in anything, it's evidence for later, if needed, that you tried to resolve things reasonably. Maybe try and detach and get her out of your head a bit - that helps get focused.

You're quite right you should have time with the kids without her being there. Send her the email and start mediation.

I would suggest you contact Child Maintenance Service yourself. They can be quite helpful if you approach them first. If the Mother does it first she will tell them all sorts and they'll treat you like a non paying Dad.

Just say you've had an informal "family based" arrangement whereby you have just paid for whatever is needed, but you now want a formal assessment. they might try to persuade you to carry on with a family based arrangement but just say no that's not agreed any more, I'd like a formal assessment. They calculate it from your HMRC records. Next thing is the phone the ex and ask if she wants a CMS assessment. If she says no - you don't have to pay . If she says yes, they go ahead and do the assessment, and send both of you a copy and it will set out a monthly payment.

Basically unless you have an agreed informal arrangement, you're obliged to pay CM by law. The amount is reduced by the number of nights they're with you (which is often why ex's like to minimise the number of nights).

What I did was, once the assessment came through I said I would pay slightly more than that permanently (so she wasn't tempted to cut nights) as part of a family based agreement. She could hardly say no to that.

If you do pay the CMS assessment, don't pay a penny more - nothing else. She might realise it's a worse deal. You might even have some leverage then. Like well if you want me to pay for more I'd like to see the kids more often.

 

[Ash]

I have I brought her kids up too.
The funny thing is she got a son at 10 and she never even seen the school he goes to.
I have attended hospital appointments clubs.
Went on school trips.
You know I was always called dad by him. As he never had one in his life. And she just took that from him. Him who isn't even my biologycal son I have schoold reached. Treated like my own I even dissowned my own father because he couldn't accept my stepchildren. And this is what I get. I will never understand. Because the damage is now done to them. And she just continues by keeping them from me. I wish I was Rich enough to get this fixed as women should be published for keeping children from dad's without a cause. But funny there is nothing until you go to court. But all of a sudden your this and that. And even funnier that these days they don't even have to prove anything just say oh he done this or done that.

That is really tough when you've brought those kids up and now, legally don't have rights to parent or see them (without her permission). I know they rarely make orders for stepkids unless the Mother agrees.

But - they won't forget. Yes they've lost you for now but, they know where you are, they won't forget, and one day they will be able to be more independent and have a relationship with them again. If you get chance some time just let them know you're always there for them if they need you.