Child access - 18 month old son

[OliverR]

I wanted some advise on child access of my 18 month old son . I split with my ex when he was 6 months old I have been having him every other Saturday 9am to 9 am on Sunday and Sunday 9am to 5pm alternating . However as I have nothing legal in place she can pull the rug from under me when she likes , for example say she's taking him away for the weekend so I can't see him . I also only saw him for one day at Christmas even though we both had ten days annual leave , I asked for a day with him and she refused. Although I've seen him most weekends as agreed it hasn't come without threats leading up to the weekend saying I can't see him and I'm constantly anxious and upset.

I'd like to know the best approach as I'd like a little bit more time and tk be able to take him on holiday . IHaving previously used a solicitor then dropping it i've been advised by a friend to go straight to mediation and possibly court if she doesn't agree . I don't want to jeopardise the time I currently have him and worry a court may give me less as he is young. Just wondering if anyone has any advise .

 

[andre909]

Hello,

Mines a little younger than yours but I've had the same experience as you have mentioned. Ive recently just had a fact finding so since my C100 application for a Child Arrangements order, I am currently six months into my court process.

But unfortunately for me I am just beginning my second interim court order for just three hours a week contact, which will take this order up to a total of 8 months with just three hours a week and all at a contact centre for (£165 a week).

8 months, 3 hours a week... at a contact centre. You read it right!

I wont hate on the court system as its completely infuriating, unfair (my view) and savage. I have now got to witness (the mother) completely manipulate a court system, with lies, allegations and power of just simply being the mother of our child.

If you do get to court - be prepared to feel the greatness of human emotion and anxiety to name just two of the many things I have had to pull myself through. It can be a horrible personal experience. You may find yourself being in the darkest of places within yourself.

However dark that sounds..... You have to keep going. Your pride leaves you way back in the process and you are 100% doing this for your child to rightfully be with you. Which they deserve with you as much as the other parent. Which is why I will never give up on my child even though I have been chewed and spat out by a system that is just utterly wrong.

I would strongly recommend trying the mediation route and more than once if it works, you can get bindings through mediation. Might 'seem' more official and the mother of your child may pay attention more whilst having a mediator supporting. You will have to go to mediation at least once to get signed off to start your C100 and journey for Child arrangements anyway.

Let me know if I can help further, obviously my actual journey has a lot more depth than just being handed three hours a week. I've had the whole works thrown at me since my application. Lots of great people on here with fantastic points of view and alternative experience. I would also say that its good to talk to people albeit over messages on here or in person. Forums like this has helped me just really have perspective and hope. It's also great to read the happier outcomes too.

Cheers

 

[OliverR]

Thanks for your reply , I'm sorry to hear of your current situation . I actually feel lucky to have the current access after reading your story , whoever thinks three hours a week is enough to see there child !

I'm worried that if I try for more access then they might end up reducing it , I have no experience to know that this might be the case . I've paid maintence and money on top for nursery and logged the times he has spent with me since December so they would have to have good reason to take that away from me . It doesn't help that my exes mother is controlling to the extend she tells my ex that's she's a better mother, it's twisted . She also has alot of money and previously funded my exes solicitor proceedings against me . I'm not looking tk play dirty just fair but both my ex and her mother like a drink and I've known a few occasions when my son has been in there care and they've acted irresponsibly. I also have texts from her saying she's going to drink and drive if I don't pick up her call . I'm not hear to do tit for tat but it is worrying .

 

[andre909]

The main issue you will face like most of us others is the will she? wont she? manipulate your times you are due with your child. You don't know if it'll be great for 6 months and then bad for 6 months. You don't know if it'll be great for 5 years and then all of a sudden you suddenly have no access through her. It's how you feel and i guess it's your gut.

All I can say from me, my time was being played with by the mother at the cost of me having my son on informal arranged times and one day was the last straw. So I said those words 'i am taking you to court'.

Yes I am suffering time with my son, but for me in the long run I know i've had to work through that shitty court system now and will have a deserved structured order with my wishes. Where my time will not be manipulated by mother.... (at some point)

Yep, ironically my ex's mother has been extremely controlling and not good for me. To the point that she called the police for kidnap. Kidnap! To note this was dismissed yesterday in court with a police disclosure stating 'this was clearly not the case' amongst other positives for me.

Wether you want to play dirty or not. Facts and evidence will decide the future with your child if it goes to court. So you should if you haven't save all conversations. Particularly if there are texts messages as you describe. You don't know if you will ever need it and if it doesn't go tit for tat then you don't need to use it. But believe me when I say this - if it goes wrong you will need everything single bit to help defend yourself.

 

[Kyle]

If I could go back in time and re-navigate this road knowing what I know now, I would of made every effort to ask the ex to sit round a table for a serious, polite chat about our child, our lives and what we want the future to be. But life never works like that. You have to learn as you go.

If could have that opportunity I would explain to her that this conflict benefits no-one. It's hurtful, damaging and destructive to both of us and the child. We are both parents to this child. Do we really want him/her to go through life with parents that are at war with each-other? Life is so incredibly short. Nobody should waste a second of it feeling anger, bitterness and hate. That is precious happiness wasted. You don't get that time back. We once thought enough of each other to make a baby. But now we are seeking to destroy each-other over that life we created together. Surely life is better with a solid co-parenting plan that ensures peace and cooperation until our child is old enough to live their own life on their terms. We will have to explain to our child why their childhood was disruptive and chaotic when they grow up. They will be smart enough to figure it out for themselves. That we were too busy trying to ruin each-other to provide them with stability. That will undoubtedly come back to bite us!

What I'm trying to say is, do everything you can to reason with your ex. Do everything you can to keep things civil and do everything you can to avoid getting onboard with the Ferryman of the Damned.

Only when you have absolutely no choice would I begin the process of applying for a court order. If that is what must be done then so be it. Buckle up.

But it sounds like you could still have a glimmer of hope. Don't squander that.

 

[StayStrong]

If I could go back in time and re-navigate this road knowing what I know now, I would of made every effort to ask the ex to sit round a table for a serious, polite chat about our child, our lives and what we want the future to be. But life never works like that. You have to learn as you go.

If could have that opportunity I would explain to her that this conflict benefits no-one. It's hurtful, damaging and destructive to both of us and the child. We are both parents to this child. Do we really want him/her to go through life with parents that are at war with each-other? Life is so incredibly short. Nobody should waste a second of it feeling anger, bitterness and hate. That is precious happiness wasted. You don't get that time back. We once thought enough of each other to make a baby. But now we are seeking to destroy each-other over that life we created together. Surely life is better with a solid co-parenting plan that ensures peace and cooperation until our child is old enough to live their own life on their terms. We will have to explain to our child why their childhood was disruptive and chaotic when they grow up. They will be smart enough to figure it out for themselves. That we were too busy trying to ruin each-other to provide them with stability. That will undoubtedly come back to bite us!

What I'm trying to say is, do everything you can to reason with your ex. Do everything you can to keep things civil and do everything you can to avoid getting onboard with the Ferryman of the Damned.

Only when you have absolutely no choice would I begin the process of applying for a court order. If that is what must be done then so be it. Buckle up.

But it sounds like you could still have a glimmer of hope. Don't squander that.

Kyle, very well put for anyone reading this forum, "....(but) if that [Court] is what must be done then so be it." Exactly.

My good wishes to all, SS.

 

[OliverR]

Thanks for your reply

If I could go back in time and re-navigate this road knowing what I know now, I would of made every effort to ask the ex to sit round a table for a serious, polite chat about our child, our lives and what we want the future to be. But life never works like that. You have to learn as you go.

If could have that opportunity I would explain to her that this conflict benefits no-one. It's hurtful, damaging and destructive to both of us and the child. We are both parents to this child. Do we really want him/her to go through life with parents that are at war with each-other? Life is so incredibly short. Nobody should waste a second of it feeling anger, bitterness and hate. That is precious happiness wasted. You don't get that time back. We once thought enough of each other to make a baby. But now we are seeking to destroy each-other over that life we created together. Surely life is better with a solid co-parenting plan that ensures peace and cooperation until our child is old enough to live their own life on their terms. We will have to explain to our child why their childhood was disruptive and chaotic when they grow up. They will be smart enough to figure it out for themselves. That we were too busy trying to ruin each-other to provide them with stability. That will undoubtedly come back to bite us!

What I'm trying to say is, do everything you can to reason with your ex. Do everything you can to keep things civil and do everything you can to avoid getting onboard with the Ferryman of the Damned.

Only when you have absolutely no choice would I begin the process of applying for a court order. If that is what must be done then so be it. Buckle up.

But it sounds like you could still have a glimmer of hope. Don't squander that.

. I totally get what you mean as regards to keeping things civil etc , that's all I want . However my ex can be childish and play games for example with our current arrangement she can say she is going away for a weekend and I lose a day seeing him , when I asked her about having a day back she say no . This is probably cliche but She doesn't understand how much I miss him and how bonding is important

 

[blindex]

Thanks for your reply

. I totally get what you mean as regards to keeping things civil etc , that's all I want . However my ex can be childish and play games for example with our current arrangement she can say she is going away for a weekend and I lose a day seeing him , when I asked her about having a day back she say no . This is probably cliche but She doesn't understand how much I miss him and how bonding is important

A key question, do you have Parental Responsibility? Because if you don't that will be your first hoop and this is a big one.

If you do have PR, you must try mediation first and then apply for a Child Arrangements Order.

If I understand from your post, these arrangements have been going for a year now, so you should have plenty of evidence that you are a safe parent and she will have a tough arguing that you're not

As others have said, try to build a coalition of support around you and the mother and see if you can nudge her in the other direction. Maybe you have common friends that can speak to her on your behalf, or someone that can convey her anxieties in a non-emotional way. That's the advantage of meditation.

To me, refusing mediation is a big red flag.

But before you press on a CAO you need to understand what you want to happen in the long term. For instance what kind arrangements you want to have in place once you child is at school?

Absolutely, fight for your rights but keep child focussed

 

[Kyle]

Thanks for your reply

. I totally get what you mean as regards to keeping things civil etc , that's all I want . However my ex can be childish and play games for example with our current arrangement she can say she is going away for a weekend and I lose a day seeing him , when I asked her about having a day back she say no . This is probably cliche but She doesn't understand how much I miss him and how bonding is important

There's comes a point where you have to detach from whatever ex can be and avoid getting caught up in any games. It's hard when it's your child in question. There are no stronger emotions than those that drive you to be with them. Don't have that taken advantage of. Your child has a right to spend time with both parents.

If you have been unable to communicate this with your ex what you want and what is troubling you then suggesting mediation to her might make her think and be less obtuse. If it fails to achieve that, find a mediator for a MIAM (Mediation Information & Assessment Meeting). Discuss your difficulties. They will advise a way forward. It may involve offering mediation to your ex. If she accepts then the mediator will set a date for mediation and act as a middle-man to try and reach an agreement between you both. If that fails. You'll have the mediation certificate from the initial MIAM to allow you to submit a C100 form to ask the family court for a Child Arrangements Order.

 

[Ash]

She has all the power and is using it as she pleases. That isn't going to change. She has no incentive to go to mediation because she's doing what she wants. I would suggest, keep going as you are until child is 2 years old. Before the age of 2 it is very hard to get an order for more than a few hours a week (breast feeding criteria up to the age of 2 even if she isn't breast feeding). After the age of 2 you can get a full order and that is likely to be at least every other week-end, a midweek night and holidays. You could also think ahead and have an order that covers when child starts school age 4 so one schedule for now and another schedule commencing when child starts school (including half the school holidays).

I managed to keep things going like you are, until my son was 7 or 8. It had its pros and cons. It was not good for my son - he was bounced around like a yoyo at my ex's whim - sometimes with me every other night, sometimes a long gap. It was better for my son that I kept on amicable speaking terms with my ex - but she still had all the power and there were stressful times - threats etc - do this or you won't see him. I literally had to pretend to be amicable. There were times I felt emasculated and depressed and didn't like my son seeing me being treated like that - wondering what that was teaching him.

I only went to court in the end when she went nuclear (long story) and stopped me seeing him altogether. After that I wished I had done it years ago - it was way better. Knew when I would see my son regularly (and he knew too so better for him) and had more control over my life. It was worse in that my ex has been hostile ever since and now won't speak at all and my son is aware of her hostile attitude to me.

You can't win if you don't have a reasonable ex. But one thing I did find helped while trying to keep things amicable for my son, was learning how to deal with/communicate with my ex. My partner actually helped with this - she said try saying it this way. And it worked. "This way" was basically polite, considerate and flattery basically.

So for example when I asked to have my son for Christmas one year I put it that it would be good for my son to have Christmas with me but I thought he would miss her and perhaps she would like to share the day. She actually agreed. I gave her lifts places etc.

Don't know how you communicate with her - verbally on the doorstep? Text? But try to be a friend kind of. Build trust. Not easy I know. If things(haven't improved by the time your child is 2 then maybe go for a court order. Meanwhile - keep clear records. Everything that's agreed (current schedule). Write down every day/time your child is with you - in a diary or on a calendar. To show the regular time and pattern.

One thing that can happen if and when you apply to court, is the ex stops you seeing the child, out of anger. It's something to be prepared for - a period without seeing them. You get the time back via an interim order at the first hearing, which is usually a few weeks, if there are no allegations of abuse. And this is why the records are important - so you can say how long you've been having regular time and how much. You should get the same back in the interim order and then what you applied for at a final hearing. But that doesn't always happen - sometimes the opposite happens - the ex suddenly becomes reasonable and friendly and gives you plenty of time (hoping they can argue there is no need for an order when it goes to court or hoping you'll withdraw the application).

Do you think your ex is the type to falsely accuse you of something? eg spite to try and prevent you seeing your child? Even if she did, you do have the advantage of having had regular time for over a year with no previous welfare issues so they would probably see through any allegations made only as a result of a court application.

However Child Arrangements hearings are not quick these days. A first hearing for an interim order could be anything from 4 to 6 weeks to 2 to 3 months. Partly depending on region and circumstances.

Try showing her you're child focused. So if she's going away for a week-end, instead of getting annoyed and threatening court, try sending her a friendly text saying you hope she has a good week-end, and you're concerned child would miss you with a gap of two weeks so perhaps you could have child overnight just before she goes away. Worth a try.

A couple of questions to think ahead in case you need to apply to court.

1. What would you actually like timewise? 50/50? 4 nights a fortnight?

2. Is your ex settled in the area, with family in the area and does she have a mortgage or does she rent? ie is she likely to try and move away if you applied to court? Harder to move away if she has a mortgage, easier if she's renting. These things can be pre-empted if you prepare for them though.

 

[OliverR]

Thanks for your response Ash , ultimately I'd like 50 percent but having spoken to a mediator she said I would have to wait until my son was 3 years old as I'm his father? If I couldn't get that then every other weekend with an over night weeknight every week . I would also like to spend some of my holidays with him something she wouldn't previously agree to .

Regarding her location I have worried about this , she currently rents a house but as she is so close to her mother I couldn't see her moving away for a while at least unless something happens to her mother

My current access is Saturday 9am - Sunday 9am every other weekend / Sunday 9am - 5pm alternating. I've been thinking about going to mediation to push for a weeknight and agreed holiday access - we both have approx a week off at Christmas . As she is constantly booking weekends away and I lose out . I have logged all the time I've had him since September last year and I've been having him stay overnight since then but from what your saying it would be better to wait until he is 2 before starting proceedings ? He is currently 16 months old .

As I've said in a previous post I wouldn't want to lose my current access but even just getting that agreed would give me better standing than I currently have as she wouldn't be able to keep taking our son away at weekends.

 

[uzzy41]

Thanks for your response Ash , ultimately I'd like 50 percent but having spoken to a mediator she said I would have to wait until my son was 3 years old as I'm his father? If I couldn't get that then every other weekend with an over night weeknight every week . I would also like to spend some of my holidays with him something she wouldn't previously agree to .

Regarding her location I have worried about this , she currently rents a house but as she is so close to her mother I couldn't see her moving away for a while at least unless something happens to her mother

My current access is Saturday 9am - Sunday 9am every other weekend / Sunday 9am - 5pm alternating. I've been thinking about going to mediation to push for a weeknight and agreed holiday access - we both have approx a week off at Christmas . As she is constantly booking weekends away and I lose out . I have logged all the time I've had him since September last year and I've been having him stay overnight since then but from what your saying it would be better to wait until he is 2 before starting proceedings ? He is currently 16 months old .

As I've said in a previous post I wouldn't want to lose my current access but even just getting that agreed would give me better standing than I currently have as she wouldn't be able to keep taking our son away at weekends.

These ex’s are so controlling , they use the children to still control us , that’s the worrying part not to lose access to what you currently have. Juts bide your time and hopefully you will be able to get 50/50

 

[Ash]

You'd be expected to try mediation before applying to court anyway, and it's a way of keeping things amicable. I don't agree that you'd have to wait till your child is 3 to get 50/50. However one of the best ways towards getting it, is to increase the time now. So do whatever you can for your ex to agree to more time. Even if it means bending over backwards to be nice and helpful to her. To be honest a full day every week-end isn't bad with a young child - if you had midweek visits as well. You might be able to achieve midweek visits via mediation. Focus on telling the mediator you believe it's best for child to see you more regularly. The main issue is your ex going away and cancelling your week-end day, without offering an alternative time to make up for it. Mediation might be able to help there too. Will your ex actually go to mediation? If you start mediation and she won't go then yes I would apply to court. Asking for a midweek overnight in addition, plus two x 1 week holiday periods a year, progressing to every other week-end and two midweek nights when child is two and plus half the school holidays when child starts school.

 

[OliverR]

Thanks Ash, just a couple more questions .

Can she stop the access during the mediation process ?

If she denies I have had him on the logged times and dates would photos be of use, I take alot of photos of him which will have dates on.

I'm thinking about taking my ex to mediation regarding the midweek access , to nail down my current access and possibly holidays . If we don't agree and it goes to court do I need a solicitor ? I'm pretty sure she will get hers involved .

 

[Ash]

Just a tip - it's not called access any more. It used to be custody and access. That changed to residency and contact. Since 2014 it's been "lives with" and "spends time with". Or "lives with both parents" (what used to be joint/shared residency). When we Dads use the old terms in formal documents, we just label ourselves as secondary parents when both parents are equal and have equal parental responsibility. Which is why the terms changed to redress the perceived power difference. Unfortunately most Mums still see themselves as the most important parent!

Anyway - can she stop you seeing your son during the mediation process? She can do that any time she feels like it unfortunately - then it would force you to go to court. Hopefully she won't. I don't see why she should during the mediation process. If she ever did stop you seeing him completely you need to apply to court asap.

Courts don't like photos as evidence, but you could say - you have evidence of his time with you via date stamped photos (if it was every queried) - which helps - as it sounds authentic. From now on just write down every time he's with you. Unbelievably, after 8 years of having my son about 40% of the time, my ex claimed, at final hearing, that I had hardly ever seen him! It was ignored. Cafcass had already spoken to the school! So they knew I'd been picking him up 2 or 3 times a week for years.

I wouldn't bother with a solicitor for the application - we can help you fill the application form in - it's not difficult and sometimes better done in your own words. But you need guidance on what to put and not to put in your personal wording on it. Solicitors tend to just put "Dad wants more time with child" which isn't helpful and doesn't explain enough - makes you a number rather than a person. And then charge you a few hundred for filling the form in.

If you submit the application yourself you just pay the court fee which I think is £230 ish pounds (it went up recently from £215). After that you get court papers with a hearing date. Between then and the hearing date you get the Cafcass call and report. If you want to use a solicitor for the hearing that can wait. Personally I think it's better to use a direct access barrister for the hearing and not bother with a solicitor. Although you could use a solicitor for a one off job like exchanging statements before final hearing and submitting the court bundle - if it goes to a final hearing.

All solicitors do is write lots of letters arguing, none of which makes any difference to the court process and isn't really evidence. Some solicitors are quite good at representing you at a first hearing, but their bill could end up more than a direct access barrister if you used them for everything.

So it would be - try mediation. If you can get a midweek night out of it that would be good.

If mediation doesn't work, submit a court application.

Assuming there are no welfare issues it goes to a first hearing. It can be agreed by consent at a first hearing and not go any further, if your ex agrees. Usually they don't agree, then it goes to a final hearing with statements and evidence and the court makes an order. The final hearing is about arguing the case for the order. Before you get there though, Cafcass will have made recommendations for an order after speaking to you both, and courts largely follow Cafcass recommendations. So getting Cafcass onside is very important!