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Changes to Living Arrangements - CAO

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MarisDad2

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Hi All,

Have been away for a while but am back now!

Was hoping to get some thoughts and opinions on a potential change to the living schedule on my CAO in anticipation of my son starting school in September.

I have a 'lives with both parents' Child Arrangement Order and my schedule is as per the following:

Week 1: Mon 6pm - Weds 6pm
Week 2: Mon 6pm - Weds 6pm / Fri 6pm - Sun 6pm

As it stands if I were to leave it as is, my son would end up with a few handovers and changing houses during a school week which I'd ideally like to avoid. I'm guessing it can be difficult for little ones to keep track of where and when they're going amidst a school schedule? So for example, on Week 1 there would be two changeovers on a Monday and Wednesday and on Week 2 there would be three on a Monday, Wednesday and Friday,

I'm thinking to propose to his Mum that my schedule changes to the following:

Week 1: Sun 6pm - Weds 3:30pm (school close)
Week 2: Sat 9am - Weds 3:30pm (school close)

This means I would drop Friday and his Mum would drop Sunday (so we're both dropping a day) and also means that my son will just have the one changeover during a school week (Wednesday). So I would always have Monday and Tuesdays and his Mum would always have Thursday and Fridays with Wednesday split (me in the morning/her in the evening).

I'm aware I've got a good order so not wanting to rock the boat unnecessarily but I think it would be a good simplification to what could turn into a hectic routine.

Would love to hear your thoughts please!
 
Hi. So is that 6 nights a fortnight? I would think the simplest thing would be a week with each parent, which is perfectly acceptable when they get to that age. So your week could be Monday from school through to Sunday 6pm (6 nights), her week would be 6pm Sunday through to school drop off the following Monday (8 nights). Or do you think 8 nights away from you is too long? You could ask for a video call midweek with each parent maybe.
 
I think you should try out your current schedule with your son when he starts school. If you find that it is too much for your boy, you can at least back your proposal to your ex with clear facts.

I too thought my kids would be negatively impacted by living in two homes with a timetable that is not continuous. They have adapted incredibly well. I have ensured that they have a set of clothes, books, toys etc so that the transition doesn't feel like an effort.

Good luck.
 
It would also be better if it could be done at mediation rather than applying to court as it's basically just a change of nights not the amount of time. If both agree at mediation, the amendments to the order can be done by consent and no need to go to court (a solicitor just draws it up - you both need a solicitor to approve it and then it's just sent to court for sealing).

Having said all that - I think your current schedule sounds fine. It's no issue going to different homes on different nights. I think it's a good schedule. The difficulty can be agreements on transport. Only one parent gets free school transport. ie a bus to and from school. So some nights they'd be getting a bus to say their Mum's house, other nights you'd be picking them up. But no big deal.

I don't think split week-ends are a good idea though.
 
Posted at the same time as Proud Dad and agree :) Current schedule is better than week on week off as you see them more regularly.
 
Actually the one issue I can see with your current schedule is that pickups are 6pm rather than direct from school. What happens if they have after school activities? But if they’re used to going to her house first then to yours it’s no real difference.
 
Hi Guys, thanks for all the advice.

I chose to cool off on trying to make the changes in the end, however, @Ash you rightly noted the issue of pickups at 6pm.

During my son's induction day on Tuesday, his Mum asked what my thought was as to the living arrangements as she was concerned that picking him up at 6pm would be too late for him to then go home and settle for bed (we live about 35-40minutes from one another). She is suggesting that we switch to picking him up from school as opposed to homes.

I wouldn't be adverse to this - think its probably better. However, my current schedule has a handover from me to her on Sunday at 6pm and then back to me on Monday at 6pm. If its a case of moving pick up times to 3pm from school surely it would be better to say to remove the Sunday pick up so he can go straight to school on Monday morning from mine?

If we did that it would mean my schedule would turn from:

Week 1: Mon 6pm - Weds 6pm
Week 2: Mon 6pm - Weds 6pm / Fri 6pm - Sun 6pm; to

Week 1: Mon 3pm - Weds 3pm
Week 2: Fri 3pm - Weds 3pm

Is this reasonable?
 
Yes it's reasonable and if you can get that great. You could suggest to her that rather than 6pm Sunday, it would make sense just to drop child off at school on Monday morning. She might not agree to that though. Ex's can sometimes be very difficult about Sunday nights.
 
Hi Ash (& others),

Just bringing this back up as I am discussing with son's mum at present. She raised the issue of school uniform and mixing clothes; basically that to do handovers from school would mean we cannot give clothes back (we each have a set of uniform at respective households).

Is this an issue? I am minded to just say wash respective clothes and let it go back and forth but is there another way of addressing this? Not sure if schools allow for handover of clothes if you leave it at reception or something?
 
In my instance it is carried in and left at reception, depends on age but can be done by child and picked up at end of day.

It sounds as if all is amicable (and semsible!) for you. The ex began with a suitcase for three nights, this obviously doesn't sit well with reception staff!

HTH, SS.
 
Work with the Mother on this. Make suggestions but go with what she's happier with - it's not worth losing school pickups over. And agreeing how it works can avoid a lot of petty aggro ongoing.

So what I did was - we each had our own sets of uniform. But because my son only had a single night midweek it wasn't really feasible to get her set washed and dried ready for the morning (had one incidence of damp clothes one morning). So he would go off in a set of mine. I would wash her set and swap them back again next time he came. It should have worked smoothly - but didn't always! Because sometimes she'd keep my set and send him back in an old tatty set of hers that was too small! (Poor kid). I basically ended up buying all the uniform!

Another option is - as Stay Strong mentions - yes they can take stuff to and from school in a bag. It happens with PE kit usually. Most schools are ok with them leaving a bag there on their coat hook to be picked up a few days later. Not ideal but could work.

Providing you both have equally good sets of uniform/same stuff there should be no issue with swapping clothes by sending him back in yours and then next time sending him back in hers.

But - as you have your son two nights on the trot I would just go with washing them when he gets there and sending him back in hers. But then do you really need any sets?!

Maybe suggest 2 or 3 options to her and see what she is happiest and unhappiest about - but try and keep things positive.
 
The good thing about to and from school after week-ends is they don't need to go back in separate clothes on Sunday nights. I found Sunday nights a nightmare. My son would arrive on Friday in uniform then go back 6pm Sunday in my clothes, with his uniform in a bag to take back to Mum. She'd then keep my clothes for ages and wouldn't return them! Much easier if they go to and from school all the time as then always leave the house in uniform - including Monday mornings.

PE Kit: What we did with that was - it lived at school all week then whoever picked him up on a Friday would take the PE kit home for washing and return it to school on Monday.
 
Wasn't that simple with me at that time :) Eventually I told my son to put his clothes in a bag when he got there and bring them back. Ex seemed to accept that. Son said he found them at the bottom of the washing basket and they'd been there weeks. Basically as long as she didn't have to deal with "my clothes" she didn't care if they came back or not!

If I had politely asked for them she'd probably have thrown them away. Not dealing with a normal reasonable human being.
 
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I found it was easier in the long term to have a set of school and casual clothing with me - it reduced the need to communicate with psycho ex.
 
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Hi Guys,

Just wanted to bring this back up again as I've got a new issue which I could use some advice on.

So after the above, the schedule ended up changing from my son living with me:

Week 1: Mon 6pm - Weds 6pm
Week 2: Mon 6pm - Weds 6pm / Fri 6pm - Sun 6pm

To my son living with me:

Week 1: Mon 5pm - Weds 5pm
Week 2: Mon 5pm - Weds 5pm / Fri 5pm - Sun 6pm

So essentially, she requested an earlier pick-up time so son could get home earlier, get ready for bed, etc - to which I agreed. What has happened since, however, is Mum has been late every week - on some occasions turning up at 6-6:30pm which has had a knock-on effect on him getting to school on time and also a knock-on effect on my work arrangements as I work flexible hours and commit to doing some hours in the evening. Most recently, I was asked if he could stay with me an extra night which I, of course, obliged.

So I sent an email explaining that handovers in the evening are becoming problematic and that handovers should just be from school, meaning the schedule would follow that my son is living with me

Week 1: Mon 3:30pm - Weds 9am
Week 2: Fri 3:30pm - Sun 00:00am / Mon 00:01am - Weds 9am
(hope that makes sense, just trying to highlight the weekends)

This, however, obviously means that I will take on an additional night (which I would love to have). So although Mum has agreed that the handovers in the evenings don't work and they should just be from school, Mum has come back and said to either change it to Tues 9am or keep handover on Sunday at 6pm.

I'm not keen on either - (1) Because I would like to have at least two nights in the week to do his homework with him/after-school activities, etc and (2) He will go to his Mum's house on Sunday at 6pm only to return back to me on Monday at 3:30pm - its less than a 24 hours turnaround and so what's the point and lastly (3) I would enjoy having an additional night with him to work on things with him, i.e. his speech, school work, etc.

I am quite conscious, however, of not wanting to go completely overboard and am aware she has recently had another child. If we can't agree my court order allows for escalation to mediation but what I would like clarity on is whether my reasons for maintaining my orginally proposed schedule is justified?
 
I agree about the Sunday night. If you dropped the second wednesday night it would be

Week 1: Mon 3:30pm - Weds 9am
Week 2: Fri 3:30pm - Tues 9am

Which is 6 nights a fortnight and it's a good schedule. I would go with that. It's a good deal. Unless you want exactly 50/50. You get much better quality time having things directly to and from school and a four night week-end. It's not 50/50 - it's 6/14. Do you think she wants it less than 50/50 so she gets Child Support? Or is it she doesn't want the child away from her for 5 nights on the trot?
 
It is a good deal but I would like to have exactly 50/50. I feel he's at a good age for it now and when I initially put it to Mum I mentioned that in terms of weekends it would mean that we each get a complete weekend and in terms of school - I would have Mondays and Tuesdays with him, she - Wednesdays and Thursdays and Fridays would be alternated. Ideally that would be a perfect schedule.

It's because of child maintenance - we've had some issues in the past on this and she's very aware that if she loses one more night she won't get any money
 
Ok so that's why that night is a sticking point. I think this is stuck then. She will agree to 6/14 to and from school, which is good - but not that seventh night. If you've only had 6/14 before I don't think they will give you that extra night. Partly because yes it will affect Child Maintenance.

Your best route is in persuading her. And addressing the CM issue. For example - if you split the cost of everything equally - uniform, shoes, dinner money, school trips etc - would she be better or worse off than receiving CM?

I'm guessing worse off. How about you put a proposal.

That you really feel it's better for child to have that equal schedule with both of you - 2-2-5-5 through to the Wednesday morning. Which would be 50/50. You're aware she is not in favour of a full 50/50 as this would mean there is no CM to pay. However you feel that if you also share the cost of all school uniform, shoes, school trips etc, with you also paying for all the dinner money, this would equally be of financial benefit.

And make a financial proposal for how things would be if it was 50/50. But if your CM is quite high I can't see her buying it.
 
Yeah I can honestly tell you now I've suggested all of that already. I actually proposed that I pay for all expenses, i.e. school trips, uniform, after-school activities and she has still said no. She wants the CMS.

So if I took this to court, are you saying its unlikely I'd get the additional night? Surely, I could come to some arrangement to agree to continue paying some level of maintenance if awarded the additional night? I wouldn't mind that at this point
 
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