Breaching Court Order

[GAV]

Good evening,

I have a 50/50 Court Order (shares time and lives with). Once again thank You guys for Your help and advice last year that contributed to achieving a success in Family Court. Unfortunately I am here again and I would kindly ask You for information regarding following issue.

Due to mental illness I had to leave United Kingdom and go to my home country for a month to receive treatment.My GP in UK approved that decision and gave me a sick note. I do realize that I breached the Court Order and wonder what will happen now. Do Family Courts take into consideration factors like illness,very poor mental condition ?? Does opinion from GP makes any difference to the Court ?? Will I have to pay fine or go to prison ?

Thanks very much

 

[NewcastleBrownAle]

Simple answer - no fine, no prison. Your ex may start up a case to get the court order varied, but in all honesty, the court would recognise that you were unwell, sought treatment and returned - simple.

So relax dude and enjoy your family time.

 

[Oneofmany]

Simple answer - no fine, no prison. Your ex may start up a case to get the court order varied, but in all honesty, the court would recognise that you were unwell, sought treatment and returned - simple.

So relax dude and enjoy your family time.

this 100%

 

[GAV]

Thanks for Your replies, I contacted Cafcass today and they informed me that the application they received from my ex is not a vary an existing child order arrangement but an enforcement order. What are the potential actions Court would take against me ? Is there still a chance that Court will reject that application (there is already a case number)? Is there gonna be a MIAM or is straight to the Court ?

Thank You

 

[Ash]

If she has applied for enforcement there is no need for a MIAM. However she might be using the enforcement application as an application to vary the time down - it depends what she's written on the application. You should have been sent a copy of it. If you haven't, then phone the court and say you need a copy of the application.

What do you want to do now? Do you still want to care for the kids 50/50? You'll need to prepare a good position statement for the hearing explaining that due to ill health and treatment you were unable to care for the children for x months (how long was it?) but you are now able to do so.

The worst that will happen is they will give sole residency to your ex and minimal time for you with the kids. No prison or fine.

 

[GAV]

Thanks Ash

I would like to continue 50/50 arrangement.I have been doing that for 5 years without missing a single day.until I got ill.my son would never agree to change that either cos he got used to that pattern over the years and he loves it.I don't even want to imagine his reaction if he is told contact with father could be limited. Finally my ex is only interested in 50/50 as well as she needs loads of time WITHOUT a child--that is the reason why she agreed for 50/50 years ago and that is why she put an enforcement order now----the fact that I am not in UK now disables her from having 50 percent time without child (as agreed in CAO)for herself and new partner-- instead she is stuck with a child 100 percent time.and she thinks it is unfair.and she is right.

I have been away for 7 weeks,I saw psychiatrist in my country and generally GP encouraged me to go away as she said I would get treatment abroad sooner than in UK where I would have to wait and wait.Additionally I had surgery here.

If it goes to Court Hearing do they listen to child wishes if he is 12 year old or is it too early?

Thanks

 

[Ash]

I think you might need some evidence. Eg a Dr's letter to say you needed to go abroad for treatment to get it quicker. If you're still abroad now, when are you coming back? Ok so your ex is enforcing to get you to share the care. The court won't look kindly on you just disappearing abroad unless you can prove somehow that you had to go for medical reasons and as soon as you are better you wish to continue the 50/50 care.

Why can't your child come out and visit you and have a holiday meanwhile? You could perhaps propose that? That the child comes to you for all school holidays until you return, which you anticipate will be another x weeks.

I think they would accept going abroad for surgery, but I'm not entirely sure they would for psychiatric treatment as that is available in the Uk whereas waiting lists for surgery are very long sometimes.

It is going to court already! Your ex has applied for enforcement. The hearing is likely to be 3 to 6 weeks after her application was sent.

An enforcement though, they would not normally do a section 7 or hear the child's wishes, if both parents agree they want to continue with 50/50.

 

[GAV]

Thanks for advice. Hopefully the Court will not gonna punish me and my son by cutting time together from let say 15 nights a month to 4. I went abroad to help myself with mental problems in order to be a better father for my son like I used to be for years.I hope they gonna understand that

 

[NewcastleBrownAle]

Thanks for advice. Hopefully the Court will not gonna punish me and my son by cutting time together from let say 15 nights a month to 4. I went abroad to help myself with mental problems in order to be a better father for my son like I used to be for years.I hope they gonna understand that

Honestly, you are over thinking. I would imagine that the court would dismiss any enforcement. I'm also surprised that cafcass gave out any information or even had any themselves, but in the meanwhile, relax and enjoy your time with your children, I don't see it changing.

 

[GAV]

Thanks for Your words of comfort.

Perhaps I am over thinking and should not worry so much.It is only my first breach of order and I had a reason.

My ex put C79 form and ticked Enforcement and Financial loss boxes because she could not go for a weekend away with her partner.and she got angry.and now I have to go to the Court and pay the ticket prices back (both for her AND her partner !!!) 100 hundred pounds. I am surprised that Courts in UK agree to deal with such "serious" issues like missing a date night with a boyfriend in Berlin.it has nothing to do with a child.

 

[NewcastleBrownAle]

Thanks for Your words of comfort.

Perhaps I am over thinking and should not worry so much.It is only my first breach of order and I had a reason.

My ex put C79 form and ticked Enforcement and Financial loss boxes because she could not go for a weekend away with her partner.and she got angry.and now I have to go to the Court and pay the ticket prices back (both for her AND her partner !!!) 100 hundred pounds. I am surprised that Courts in UK agree to deal with such "serious" issues like missing a date night with a boyfriend in Berlin.it has nothing to do with a child.

they won't agree and I am confident they wont be asking you to pay your partner's losses. They will see it as petty and unreasonable.

relax dude, sit back and let her waste her time and effort

 

[GAV]

Thanks once again !!

Once I know the Court Hearing date, do I have to attend it no matter what ? Because I am still abroad and not mentally fit. What kind of documents would I need to send to the Court to justify my absence? I was thinking about getting a detailed opinion from the psychiatrist describing my problems but I do not know whether anxiety,depression are serious enough to ask for the delay. Finally,do they accept certificates from abroad (translated,in English) in British Courts ?

Thank You

 

[Ash]

You would need a Doctor's letter. Ideally that says you're undergoing treatment and not fit to travel currently. Ideally written in English. And send it in with a request for the hearing to be adjourned to a later date, say in 3 months time? Sorry to hear you're struggling. 3 months usually does it.

Your ex and any lawyer she uses, may say - well you fit to travel for the treatment, so should be fit to travel for the hearing. So maybe a medical letter should say you're undergoing treatment and advised not to travel or attend a hearing at the present time.

If you think about it, if your ex was hospitalised with some serious illness for a few months - you would just keep the kids and adjust your life accordingly wouldn't you?

 

[GAV]

Thanks for reply,

How does that whole Enforcement Order Hearing process look like ?are there any stages?

I am asking cos I received paperwork regarding my first Hearing and it is very similar to the one I read when I had Child Arrangement Order letter namely: it mentions FHDRA again,MIAM again,also it says there will Cafcass Safeguarding Letter and generally it informed me that there is still possible to find some compromise/mediate etc as there will be Cafcass officer present in the Court.I don't get it.I thought it is too late now cos I breached the Order and the reason I am going there is to listen whether the Judge will accept my excuse or not.simple

Is there anything I need to do now apart from reading C79 application and going for the Hearing ?

Thanks

 

[GAV]

Hi guys,

I wrote in my previous post that even though the reason I am going to the Court this time (Enforcement Order,C79 form submitted,in her application ex partner did not mention a word about her wish to vary an existing Child Arrangement Order which is 50/50 shares time and lives with) is different from the one I had 2 years ago (Child Arrangement Order,in her application my ex emphasized that she wanted to schedule when my child will be with her and when with me) both processes are likely to look very similar (paperwork mentions ---again --FHDRA,MIAM,Cafcass role and possibility to find compromise with a mediator that will be present in Court before Hearing).
And yes indeed,this week I am having telephone appointment with Cafcass Officer to discuss our situation---exactly like 2 years ago.Does the Child Arrangement Order appointment with Cafcass differ from Enforcement Order appointment with Cafcass ??? Cos 2 years ago they helped us reach a 50/50 agreement before entering the Court room which we did and I do not know what their role is this time and how to prepare for the appointment with them.

I would be very grateful if someone answered my above-mentioned question and also the ones from my previous post please. I will definitely not exaggerate if I say that advice and help I received on this forum before my Court Hearing 2 years ago contributed in a huge part to a final success that was 50/50 outcome signed by Judges. Therefore I am kindly asking for some help this time. My FHDRA is in 3 weeks time and Cafcass interview this week and really I do not know what to expect from that Enforcement Order Hearing and how to prepare.

THANK YOU

 

[GAV]

Hi everybody,

Could anybody help me with two issues ahead of my Final Hearing please.

1.My ex partner wants a McKenzie friend present during Hearing which is her current partner. Is it only Court that can refuse it or can I object to it as well ? I don't want him present, I will be stressed cos our relations are not good and I do not want him to hear about my problems with mental health as there are very personal and private.It is not easy to talk about issues like that even with a family or GP. I do not whether that is a reasonable explanation or am I asking for too much.
2.Can I refuse a Hearing if there is no interpreter provided? Family Court Adviser said it is so difficult to get one in UK and he will be talking slowly and explaining everything (in English) which is not the same really.
Thank You

 

[Jayy_]

Hi everybody,

Could anybody help me with two issues ahead of my Final Hearing please.

1.My ex partner wants a McKenzie friend present during Hearing which is her current partner. Is it only Court that can refuse it or can I object to it as well ? I don't want him present, I will be stressed cos our relations are not good and I do not want him to hear about my problems with mental health as there are very personal and private.It is not easy to talk about issues like that even with a family or GP. I do not whether that is a reasonable explanation or am I asking for too much.
2.Can I refuse a Hearing if there is no interpreter provided? Family Court Adviser said it is so difficult to get one in UK and he will be talking slowly and explaining everything (in English) which is not the same really.
Thank You

Hi, for 1, you can object with the reason that it is a conflict of interest as well as previous involvement in conflict.

Unsure on number 2. However if it is hard to get an interpreter I’d consider how much this could possibly delay.

 

[GAV]

Thanks for Your reply. The proposed McKenzie friend is my ex's current partner.He is mentioned in her C79 application.Could I possibly refuse his presence on the Final Hearing on the grounds that he is not impartial,neutral and clearly has interest in me being punished by the Court ?? He is involved in the conflict,a little bit, I think.Thanks

 

[Jayy_]

Thanks for Your reply. The proposed McKenzie friend is my ex's current partner.He is mentioned in her C79 application.Could I possibly refuse his presence on the Final Hearing on the grounds that he is not impartial,neutral and clearly has interest in me being punished by the Court ?? He is involved in the conflict,a little bit, I think.Thanks

I wouldn’t say he has interest in you being punished. Just say it’s a conflict of interest as he is not impartial or neutral. It wouldn’t be in child’s best interest.