Barrister or NOT for 'complicated' not so complicated case?

[Another disposable father]

Hi all

I hope you're all in good health and spirits (trying to avoid using the word well because you wouldn't be on this forum if that were the case!)

So I guess I want to start a conversation about the pros and cons of getting a barrister. I think the majority of people base their decision on affordability rather than necessity (my opinion). It's sometimes difficult to decide whether you actually need one regardless of whether or not you can afford one. e.g If you already have shared care but want slightly more and CAFCASS recommend the same as you're asking for - There must be varying opinions whether it a worthwhile expense in this circumstance?

So, in my case, I began this court malarkey in March 2023 and had no access at all at that time. I've self represented so far (and no solicitor either), 10 hearings and counting! I now have a final hearing end of January. I've seen and heard it all, had very serious false allegations, social services (who never met me) claiming I was the devil, oh and the Police too, who falsely arrested me twice, lovely chaps they are. Despite this, no fact find as I was able to point out the allegations were ridiculous (her publicly funded barrister hates me for that lol). I then went through the supervised contact centre palaver, kept pushing and now have a shared care interim order for 3 nights in the meantime (after the court ordered 1 overnight and then 2, I then got mother to increase to 3 as it was convenient to her..). So I now have 3 overnights but still seeking at least 50:50 and completely flexible on when my 50% is. CAFCASS are recommending 50:50.

The only 'complicated' part is, I am British, mother is from a non Hague convention country. She has made a cross application to relocate child to that country. I could take a very simple approach and just say I don't want our child going as mother poses a risk of non return. - I'm fairly sure that even without a barrister, I'd probably get 50:50 and stay in UK. However I see a lot of benefit for our child for him to spend time in that country, a whole half of his family and history is there. I can't bring myself to not allow holidays or some time there. We have an expert report (cost a fortune) basically says the only thing I could do if there was a problem is to start proceedings in that country (which would be a waste of time anyway).

If it were not for the travel/holiday issue then I wouldn't bother with a barrister, but I want to have the strongest position possible e.g assuming mother brings him back that 50:50 should resume in UK etc even if that's in a few years as mother is asking for. The issue I've got is I don't think there is much a barrister can add, but I don't want to take the chance missing something I could have got, but it's a 3 day hearing and barristers are quoting £10k, making it a very difficult decision.

It's probably very unusual but has anyone ever heard of using a barrister for the first/second day only? not sure it would be much cheaper, but I basically only need them for cross examination and stating my position.

Be interested to hear thoughts on this.

 

[mainstay92]

Hi all

I hope you're all in good health and spirits (trying to avoid using the word well because you wouldn't be on this forum if that were the case!)

So I guess I want to start a conversation about the pros and cons of getting a barrister. I think the majority of people base their decision on affordability rather than necessity (my opinion). It's sometimes difficult to decide whether you actually need one regardless of whether or not you can afford one. e.g If you already have shared care but want slightly more and CAFCASS recommend the same as you're asking for - There must be varying opinions whether it a worthwhile expense in this circumstance?

So, in my case, I began this court malarkey in March 2023 and had no access at all at that time. I've self represented so far (and no solicitor either), 10 hearings and counting! I now have a final hearing end of January. I've seen and heard it all, had very serious false allegations, social services (who never met me) claiming I was the devil, oh and the Police too, who falsely arrested me twice, lovely chaps they are. Despite this, no fact find as I was able to point out the allegations were ridiculous (her publicly funded barrister hates me for that lol). I then went through the supervised contact centre palaver, kept pushing and now have a shared care interim order for 3 nights in the meantime (after the court ordered 1 overnight and then 2, I then got mother to increase to 3 as it was convenient to her..). So I now have 3 overnights but still seeking at least 50:50 and completely flexible on when my 50% is. CAFCASS are recommending 50:50.

The only 'complicated' part is, I am British, mother is from a non Hague convention country. She has made a cross application to relocate child to that country. I could take a very simple approach and just say I don't want our child going as mother poses a risk of non return. - I'm fairly sure that even without a barrister, I'd probably get 50:50 and stay in UK. However I see a lot of benefit for our child for him to spend time in that country, a whole half of his family and history is there. I can't bring myself to not allow holidays or some time there. We have an expert report (cost a fortune) basically says the only thing I could do if there was a problem is to start proceedings in that country (which would be a waste of time anyway).

If it were not for the travel/holiday issue then I wouldn't bother with a barrister, but I want to have the strongest position possible e.g assuming mother brings him back that 50:50 should resume in UK etc even if that's in a few years as mother is asking for. The issue I've got is I don't think there is much a barrister can add, but I don't want to take the chance missing something I could have got, but it's a 3 day hearing and barristers are quoting £10k, making it a very difficult decision.

It's probably very unusual but has anyone ever heard of using a barrister for the first/second day only? not sure it would be much cheaper, but I basically only need them for cross examination and stating my position.

Be interested to hear thoughts on this.

Sorry never heard of anyone using a barrister for 2 days.. I would be careful allowing a child go non Hague convention area as its happens too often kids never return. I know its hard as you want your child to see their family but just be sure she will come back before agreeing

 

[Another disposable father]

Sorry never heard of anyone using a barrister for 2 days.. I would be careful allowing a child go non Hague convention area as its happens too often kids never return. I know its hard as you want your child to see their family but just be sure she will come back before agreeing

Thanks for your message mate. It's a tough one. If the child's mother was reasonable I'd have no problems with her taking him for a holiday or even a few months at a time. They don't think of the long term damage when they're throwing all of their false allegations out, how can we trust them after that?! We're put under the microscope and have to fight to be fathers but they have to be proven to be unfit mothers, yet she's the reason why the kid can't go to her country (which is arguably harm caused by him losing out on an experience he should have), and I'm the one trying to find a way for it to happen but seen as the villain for not letting her go (to protect the child). It's a right mess :/

 

[Ash]

10 hearings! You've done very well to get a 50/50 recommendation from Cafcass. I would normally say yes it's worth getting a barrister for final hearing - especially with this relocation application and you want to make sure a final order is written up really well too. But - a 3 day final hearing? That would cost a fortune.

The other thing to say is - don't be soft - you can't possibly risk your child being abducted. You sound confident you'll get the 50/50 and the relocation application dismissed. Why can't your's ex's family visit her instead? Also there may be a way overseas holidays can be ordered (within the normal half the holidays schedule) with safeguards in place. I'm not sure what safeguards but maybe proof of return flight and passports kept at the airport. But I don't know enough about that. For that reason I'd suggest you possibly get a consultation with a Barrister and discuss it and form a strategy - and still represent yourself at the final hearing.

Although if you can afford it I'd use a barrister - but £10.000 for a 3 day hearing sounds like a fairly low priced Barrister and that might be a waste of money. A good one usually charges at least 4k plus VAT (ie about 4.5k) for a full day.