At the beginning of all this...

[Ash]

It sounds like a mesher order is a possibility, but presumably that would include spousal maintenance to help pay for the house, and presumably then you'd not have enough money to be able to afford to rent somewhere. I've heard of mesher orders where it says it ends if the ex remarries, but sometimes they get round that but just living with a guy permanently and not actually marrying them. Not sure if it could be worded to say if she "cohabits" with someone for more than a year or something. But have also heard stories where they pretend they're not cohabiting by the partner keeping their own house and going there occasionally, and claiming they live in separate houses.

Whatever option leads to living in different houses, I think you want to have a Child Arrangements order as a priority, otherwise it could take you a long time to get to see your kids. So if you could work out a plan for yourself, and apply for a CAO (if she won't agree to a consent order and it seems likely she won't) then you could do the divorce aspects later. If you have 50/50 shared care then there is no child maintenance to pay - even if you still end up having to pay spousal.

As I said I'm no expert on divorce, but what would happen if OP moved out, rented a 3 bedroom house and got a CAO for 50/50 for example and then the divorce financials came later? The fact that he's already renting and paying out x amount a month would presumably affect any decisions as to how much he needs to pay his wife.

And wushuguan, always bear in mind that any generous thoughts you're feeling now - in the future another man may live in your house and have a good income and you wouldn't want to be tied into some long term financial thing that leaves you short while they are living the high life. There is a lot to think about.

Presumably you can't afford to rent a 3 bedroom house AND pay all the costs on the current house. However, if the mortgage was remortgaged onto interest only, would that free up much? I believe your wife would also still be entitled to benefits - to help pay interest on mortgage and bills etc, if she wasn't working.

 

[wushuguan]

Just a thought - why shouldn't your wife move out and you remain in the home with the children? She can't have her cake and eat it. If she's in another relationship, she can move in with him and take the flack.

Hi mate, trouble is, I work full time and wouldn't be able to provide enough care for the children. Even still, I wouldn't be able to afford to pay her off and continue the mortgage.

 

[wushuguan]

I'm heading towards financial resolution and my solicitor has briefly mentioned the option of a mesher order. Yes, it could tie up your capital for several years and wouldn't help you short term, but it may be a way of avoiding stbx getting all of the house, on the grounds she wouldn't be able to afford anything else. Since my stbx is already in another relationship, and they'll probably want to move in together at some point, this could be a trigger for selling the house under a mesher order - meaning property might only be tied up for a short time, while still limiting the chance she gets a bigger share of the house at financial settlement. Another consideration is there is a possibility of being stuck with sharing the maintenance costs of the property until it is sold. Everyone's case is slightly different. In my situation a mesher order might be to my advantage, so it is an option I'll be exploring further.

Thank you for your reply, yes it does appear to be a good way to move on in my situation.
Yes, I believe you set "triggers" for events which is a good idea.
I would need us both to speak to a solicitor really so they can present us with options that suit both of us.
My stbx would continue to pay the mortgage payments with my name still on there, so would think that as the equity would grow in the set years, she would proabbly be entitled to a slightly higher percentage from the extra she has paid.

So much to think about but it does seem a good option moving forward, where my children could then continue in the house they are used to without too much disruption.

 

[wushuguan]

It sounds like a mesher order is a possibility, but presumably that would include spousal maintenance to help pay for the house, and presumably then you'd not have enough money to be able to afford to rent somewhere. I've heard of mesher orders where it says it ends if the ex remarries, but sometimes they get round that but just living with a guy permanently and not actually marrying them. Not sure if it could be worded to say if she "cohabits" with someone for more than a year or something. But have also heard stories where they pretend they're not cohabiting by the partner keeping their own house and going there occasionally, and claiming they live in separate houses.

Whatever option leads to living in different houses, I think you want to have a Child Arrangements order as a priority, otherwise it could take you a long time to get to see your kids. So if you could work out a plan for yourself, and apply for a CAO (if she won't agree to a consent order and it seems likely she won't) then you could do the divorce aspects later. If you have 50/50 shared care then there is no child maintenance to pay - even if you still end up having to pay spousal.

As I said I'm no expert on divorce, but what would happen if OP moved out, rented a 3 bedroom house and got a CAO for 50/50 for example and then the divorce financials came later? The fact that he's already renting and paying out x amount a month would presumably affect any decisions as to how much he needs to pay his wife.

And wushuguan, always bear in mind that any generous thoughts you're feeling now - in the future another man may live in your house and have a good income and you wouldn't want to be tied into some long term financial thing that leaves you short while they are living the high life. There is a lot to think about.

Presumably you can't afford to rent a 3 bedroom house AND pay all the costs on the current house. However, if the mortgage was remortgaged onto interest only, would that free up much? I believe your wife would also still be entitled to benefits - to help pay interest on mortgage and bills etc, if she wasn't working.

I would only be able to afford child maintenance, she should be able to afford to continue the mortgage payments and with the child maintenance and the universal credit she would be entitled to, she should manage.

Yes, there would be lots of "triggers" we would need to bring up that would then make it so the equity has to be released.

Totally understand a new man could move in, but I think if we have a set time that I can work towards and include the various triggers, it could be a good way to move forward for us both. I want as less disruption for my children as possible.
It's not to say a couple years into all this, I meet someone else and by the time my part of the equity is due, we may want to move in together as well.

But yes, so much to think about.
Just positive to know there are options to move on.

 

[wushuguan]

So, I mentioned the Mesher order idea to her but she keeps making excuses.
I am at a complete loss as to how to move on now. I think she is expecting me to simply move out and rent without any legal agreement in order!????

 

[MagicJ]

I would need us both to speak to a solicitor really so they can present us with options that suit both of us.

Hi @wushuguan , just been keeping track of your thread, I think I can add some experience here.

I thought, as you, there is a way forward that is productive for both and it is very simply get solicitors to explain and document it.

The minute the solicitor was involved, it descended very quickly. Even though I had chivalrous motives and focussed on the kids, they just wanted me to move out & no wouldn't discuss arrangements.

9m later and I'm almost at the end of one case for kids and halfway through the money case.

I know you mean well but I'd suggest protecting your relationship with the kids proactively!

 

[Ash]

So, I mentioned the Mesher order idea to her but she keeps making excuses.
I am at a complete loss as to how to move on now. I think she is expecting me to simply move out and rent without any legal agreement in order!????

Just book a MIAM and start mediation over child arrangements, but make sure you have a C100 filled in before the mediator invites your ex, so you can send it off quickly if necessary. Could you do 5 nights a fortnight? That would be every other week-end from school on Friday to school drop off Monday morning, plus one midweek overnight. If you can do that you can apply for a "lives with both parents" order, even though the time is unequal. This won't affect child maintenance, but it will mean you are both the "parent with care" so your ex doesn't abuse the situation if she is the sole resident parent.

You can get an order that says the children live with you 5 nights a fortnight and half the holidays and this commences from the time you move out. That way you can move out as and when it suits, and your ex can't withold the kids to blackmail you over the finances as the financial discussions proceed.

 

[wushuguan]

Hi @wushuguan , just been keeping track of your thread, I think I can add some experience here.

I thought, as you, there is a way forward that is productive for both and it is very simply get solicitors to explain and document it.

The minute the solicitor was involved, it descended very quickly. Even though I had chivalrous motives and focussed on the kids, they just wanted me to move out & no wouldn't discuss arrangements.

9m later and I'm almost at the end of one case for kids and halfway through the money case.

I know you mean well but I'd suggest protecting your relationship with the kids proactively!

Thanks for the reply mate, it’s really good to hear other peoples stories and opinions. I am a complete novice at all this so want ot make sure it’s done correctly and fairly (without getting screwed too much!)


So, if you don’t mind me asking, did you move out into rented accommodation and keep your name on the mortgage?


KR

 

[wushuguan]

Just book a MIAM and start mediation over child arrangements, but make sure you have a C100 filled in before the mediator invites your ex, so you can send it off quickly if necessary. Could you do 5 nights a fortnight? That would be every other week-end from school on Friday to school drop off Monday morning, plus one midweek overnight. If you can do that you can apply for a "lives with both parents" order, even though the time is unequal. This won't affect child maintenance, but it will mean you are both the "parent with care" so your ex doesn't abuse the situation if she is the sole resident parent.

You can get an order that says the children live with you 5 nights a fortnight and half the holidays and this commences from the time you move out. That way you can move out as and when it suits, and your ex can't withold the kids to blackmail you over the finances as the financial discussions proceed.

Thanks mate, really appreciate all the advice from everyone on here.

Can I book a MIAM just for me at first and put my side across, or should the meeting be for us both?

I will look into a C100 as well.



I would think if I can find suitable accomodation then yes by all means, 5 nights a fortnite wouldn’t be an issue for me. However, I have three children and the two elder ones have a lot on over weekends (sports) which my wife takes them on a Saturday and on a Sunday we take each to different places, but in terms of sleeping over that wouldn’t be an issue in my opinion.



I am sure with the help of grandparents, the holdays wouldn’t be too much of a problem either, just mean juggling things around.



KR

 

[Ash]

It's hard to imagine being separated when you're not, but when the kids "live with" you, you are the parent responsible for them so you would be taking them to any classes on your week-ends, and your ex taking them to classes on her week-ends.

Yes the first mediation session, the MIAM - you go to by yourself and explain the situation to the mediator. The mediator then contacts your ex and invites her to the next session. The MIAM is what you need legally to apply to court on a C100. In fact it's possible to have a MIAM and get signed off mediation without your ex even knowing you've had a MIAM - which some people do in certain cases.

 

[wushuguan]

It's hard to imagine being separated when you're not, but when the kids "live with" you, you are the parent responsible for them so you would be taking them to any classes on your week-ends, and your ex taking them to classes on her week-ends.

Yes the first mediation session, the MIAM - you go to by yourself and explain the situation to the mediator. The mediator then contacts your ex and invites her to the next session. The MIAM is what you need legally to apply to court on a C100. In fact it's possible to have a MIAM and get signed off mediation without your ex even knowing you've had a MIAM - which some people do in certain cases.

Yes it sure it mate.
Only issue we will have is when 2 of the children need to be in differnet places at the same time, which is normal on a Sunday with their football matches. I assume we would need to come up with some kind of agreement for this.

I am away for a week so will get my head around things and look into a MIAM.

KR

 

[Ash]

Google family mediators in your area and phone round them and see who can offer the earliest appointment/sounds ok. You might need to make some adjustments to kids week-end activities. How do you manage at the moment? Does one of you take one kid and the other take the other kid?

 

[wushuguan]

Google family mediators in your area and phone round them and see who can offer the earliest appointment/sounds ok. You might need to make some adjustments to kids week-end activities. How do you manage at the moment? Does one of you take one kid and the other take the other kid?

Yes so we normally run them around between us and also grandparents as there are 3 children.

 

[Ash]

Grandparents can help out on your time too. There are quite a few adjustments needed when it's separated parenting but you'll work it out.

 

[wushuguan]

Grandparents can help out on your time too. There are quite a few adjustments needed when it's separated parenting but you'll work it out.

Thanks mate, I will look into it.
I am away for a week in the next couple of days so hopefully give me a chance to clear my head a bit as I am all over the place at present.

I'll report back with any updates.

Thanks again.

 

[wushuguan]

Hi all, hope you are all well. I haven't even asked how you guys are before so sorry about that, got caught up in my own situation! Please feel free to vent out to me as well.

An update for you...
After having some time away, it was nice to clear my head for a little while.
Since coming back, nothing has changed at home. I have a free consultation this afternoon with a mediator to get some further advice which would then lead to a MIAM as advised by you guys.

So, my stbx messaged me the other day saying she was getting info on selling the house. I thought this was positive, however today she informs me that she is unable to afford anything moving forward, something I already knew.
I mentioned the rent option and she could use the equity from the sale to keep her going until she perhaps earned more money.
This gets disregarded straightaway saying that as she doesn't earn enough income, she would not qualify for renting.

I said she could move back in with her parents for a short term after we sale the house. I get a reply basically saying I am only thing about myself??!!! And that she has had enough, I should sell the house and take the children as she thinks she is not needed ffs! I told her that this is not true and the children need us BOTH, there will be options moving forward and that she HAS to speak to people about the situation.

Am I going mad and being unreasonable? I have no idea what to do.
I am more than happy to sale up and buy a small place for me and the children, however, I do work full time so would be difficult. My elder two are pretty much self sufficient in getting to and from school which is a massive help. It is my youngest who will need more attention. I guess I can drop him to breakfast club every day and look at perhaps after school club for a couple of days and ask grandparents to help with other pick up days?

If I do take this responsibility, I assume the child maintenance would be less or even zero? Would I be eligible for some kind of government help? I am not the sort of person who likes to ask for this kind of help as I feel there are people much worse off than me who need it.

Even after all this, I really do feel sorry for my stbx, we have been together a very long time and I can't just shut off my feelings as I will always have that care for her in my mind, especially her being the mother of our children.

 

[capa]

This gets disregarded straightaway saying that as she doesn't earn enough income, she would not qualify for renting.

Can I ask how much does stbx earns? As this could be a situation I maybe facing soon enough. If she earns a low amount then surely a UC claim would be appropriate especially with children involved, thus rent in those years to come when the equity has depleted, she will have rent paid. Please correct me if my thinking is wrong.

 

[wushuguan]

Can I ask how much does stbx earns? As this could be a situation I maybe facing soon enough. If she earns a low amount then surely a UC claim would be appropriate especially with children involved, thus rent in those years to come when the equity has depleted, she will have rent paid. Please correct me if my thinking is wrong.

Hello, she earns approx 11k per year. Yes she is eligible for around £300 UC.
However, she feels that she will not be eligible to rent with a low income (this is without looking into it though) I think she is almost just giving up which is sad. I have recommended that she speak to someone, anyone really to advise her but she just shuts me down.

 

[wushuguan]

Just had a message from my stbx that she is seeing a solicitor next week. I am pleased she is speaking to someone, however, I feel the solicitor will recommend she gets more of the equity which could put me in a difficult situation.

 

[wushuguan]

I have a MIAM in a couple of days so hopefully get some more advice.
I think a mesher agreement is going to be a practical move going forward, does anyone know more about these and whether they can be sorted with solicitors? We are really going to struggle paying solicitor fees otherwise.