Hi everyone. Currently separated and waiting on final order. Issue I have is around clothing for my 2 daughters. I contribute financially to my ex for food, power, school clubs, trips and clothing associated with school. I’m also contributing 50% for my eldests educational costs as well. In short I’m forking out nearly £1500 pcm. My ex has a habit of going shopping with the girls and buying new clothes and then sends me a bill at the end of the month expecting me to pay 50%. I get no notice of these shopping trips, have to push to get receipts however the expectation is that I pay. I’ve told her that this not acceptable and that I can’t budget like this. Note she is in the family home whilst I am in a rented accommodation. Does anyone have any experience with dealing with this situation? Also the children live with me fri, Sat, sun every other week yet I get no contribution to my energy, food bills. Should I be requesting this?
Guest viewing is limited
- You have a limited number of page views remaining
- 2 guest views remaining
- Register now to remove this limitation
Advice on child costs
- Thread starter Sid0926
- Start date
Answers to these questions will probably help people understand your situation and give advice.
What final order are you waiting for?
Is the arrangement for children or finances informal?
Are/were you married?
Have you checked how much you should pay on the CMS calculator?
Do you have an arrangement for the school holidays?
What final order are you waiting for?
Is the arrangement for children or finances informal?
Are/were you married?
Have you checked how much you should pay on the CMS calculator?
Do you have an arrangement for the school holidays?
What final order are you waiting for? This the final order for the divorce.
Is the arrangement for children or finances informal? This informal until the divorce is finalised then the ex goes via cms.
Are/were you married? Yes
Have you checked how much you should pay on the CMS calculator? £1000 pcm and 20% of school fees comes to £1380.
Do you have an arrangement for the school holidays? Issue is that I’m a contractor, if I don’t work I don’t get paid. I take 2 weeks off in the Summer and take the girls away.
we have 2 different financial scenarios she is doing well financially and I’m not yet it’s fine for her to go out every week buying new clothes for girls that I never see but pay 50% for. The girls always turn up to me with hoodie and trackie bottoms. Where are these clothes she is buying?
Is the arrangement for children or finances informal? This informal until the divorce is finalised then the ex goes via cms.
Are/were you married? Yes
Have you checked how much you should pay on the CMS calculator? £1000 pcm and 20% of school fees comes to £1380.
Do you have an arrangement for the school holidays? Issue is that I’m a contractor, if I don’t work I don’t get paid. I take 2 weeks off in the Summer and take the girls away.
we have 2 different financial scenarios she is doing well financially and I’m not yet it’s fine for her to go out every week buying new clothes for girls that I never see but pay 50% for. The girls always turn up to me with hoodie and trackie bottoms. Where are these clothes she is buying?
Sometimes exes use the kids as leverage for money. Once the divorce is finalised that leaves the child arrangements informal so if you then say I’m only paying this much, she could mess about with the kids seeing you. You need the child arrangements formalised too - either in a consent order or via a court application. So if you set out the child arrangements on paper as 3 nights every other weekend and two weeks holiday in the summer and ask her to agree to this for a consent order and she says no - then you can expect her to do whatever she wants in future re child arrangements.
She can’t have it both ways - you paying CM and also 50% of clothing costs.
Also anything you pay should be designated as CM on the standing order or it could be classed as not having been paid.
So if you pay the mortgage and bills directly then that doesn’t count as CM.
What you need is a standing order for the £1300 a month with child maintenance as the reference and her pay the bills out of that. But is your name on the mortgage? Are you going to be getting any equity share out of the house as part of the divorce? I think you need to be careful.
She can’t have it both ways - you paying CM and also 50% of clothing costs.
Also anything you pay should be designated as CM on the standing order or it could be classed as not having been paid.
So if you pay the mortgage and bills directly then that doesn’t count as CM.
What you need is a standing order for the £1300 a month with child maintenance as the reference and her pay the bills out of that. But is your name on the mortgage? Are you going to be getting any equity share out of the house as part of the divorce? I think you need to be careful.
Hi, thanks for the reply.
She is currently looking to see if she can buy me out of the mortgage as both our names are on it and it’s agreed 50/50. I think you are 100% right I need to get the access to the children sorted out. Thanks so much feeling a little more ‘armed’.
She is currently looking to see if she can buy me out of the mortgage as both our names are on it and it’s agreed 50/50. I think you are 100% right I need to get the access to the children sorted out. Thanks so much feeling a little more ‘armed’.
Would you be able to have the girls more often?
I understand if it's difficult due to your job.
Just if you had them more the cms amount goes down.
It's not fair you pay for all this stuff and then more on top. She's classically using you as wallet as punishment.
I understand if it's difficult due to your job.
Just if you had them more the cms amount goes down.
It's not fair you pay for all this stuff and then more on top. She's classically using you as wallet as punishment.
Hi Peanut 21. I'm kind of caught between a rock and a hard place. The children are unfortunately very used to the 'home' comforts where they have nice big bedrooms, a wardrobe, Alexa etc. When they live with me they are both in smallish rooms that I can't fit a wardrobe in and we have to hang clothes on a rack in the landing. They are at that age whereby materialism is starting to appear and so At the moment I have them for Friday, Saturday, Sunday nights and then alternate with my ex and when she has them I hath them on a Wednesday night. So at best I'm looking at 102 nights however there are days during the holiday season as well. What I find galling is whilst I am separated from my ex and yes the amount I contribute doesn't cover clothes if you include the schooling and everything else its just short of £1500 pcm and even CMS has me down at £962 pcm (note that I am agreeing to pay 20% of my daughters monthly school fee which is £327). I'm definitely going to look at getting something written up to guarantee me at least 104 days per year seeing the girls and that the CMS payments cover clothing.
It's hard to get your head round how things will be after separation and sometimes Mums assume everything will be the same but with no Dad there, and Dad's assume they have to pay for everything but forget to provide for themselves.
How old are your kids and does your ex work? She can't expect you to just pay for everything and work and not have enough to provide a place for the kids yourself. If the house equity is going to be split 50/50, has there been any discussion about whether the house will be sold or how your share is going to be funded? Some Dads end up with a divorce deal where they're expected to fund the FMH, ex and kids until the age of 18. But that is unfair if she could retrain and get a good job herself.
Most people can't afford two homes and two lifestyles. Technically you only need to pay what the CMS assessment is and your ex should fund things from that. Plus the extra you agreed voluntarily re school fees if that's what was agreed.
Have you had any mediation at all? You said the final hearing is coming up re the divorce - have financial agreements been reached for that?
How old are your kids and does your ex work? She can't expect you to just pay for everything and work and not have enough to provide a place for the kids yourself. If the house equity is going to be split 50/50, has there been any discussion about whether the house will be sold or how your share is going to be funded? Some Dads end up with a divorce deal where they're expected to fund the FMH, ex and kids until the age of 18. But that is unfair if she could retrain and get a good job herself.
Most people can't afford two homes and two lifestyles. Technically you only need to pay what the CMS assessment is and your ex should fund things from that. Plus the extra you agreed voluntarily re school fees if that's what was agreed.
Have you had any mediation at all? You said the final hearing is coming up re the divorce - have financial agreements been reached for that?
Hi Ash, the children are 8 and 14 and my ex runs her own business and she earn about 15K more than me. She is currently looking into whether she can buy out my 50% equity or whether the house will have to go on the market. This has been discussed since last Summer however things finally came to a head at Christmas when she told me that she could see the market dropping and would not be looking to overpay me for my share of the equity.
My ex is not interested in mediation and the response was the same when I suggested marriage counselling over a year ago. My ex has been granted a conditional order by the court and has to apply for the final order to end the marriage. However she is not willing to apply for the final order until the finances and child arrangements have been agreed which I'm not sure why is the case.
Are the 8 and 14 year old the same sex or not? Only asking because over the age of 10 then legally they're not supposed to share a bedroom - unless they are same sex.
So your ex is earning a lot more than you, but wanting you to go halves on things on top of CM. That doesn't seem very fair. Mind you having to pay CM doesn't seem fair either if she's earning more than you! But that's the law for you.
It sounds like the typical thing where she maybe wants the finances agreed first. Once the finances are sorted legally it can be hard to get the Child Arrangements sorted legally. Sometimes for a Dad, it can be better getting the Child Arrangements formalised first - then the ex can't use the kids as leverage to get a better financial deal. But don't know what your ex is like.
If the house was sold or she bought you out, could you afford to buy another place with the equity and your income, while still paying child maintenance? I think this is why some Dads end up working less - to have more time to see the kids and to pay less CM!
So she won't go to mediation. And she's stalling on the house being valued. Not quite sure how that adds up as she can't get the finances sorted without a house valuation being agreed. So maybe your focus right now should be to ask her to formalise the child arrangements in a consent order and then sort out the divorce finances once she's happy to do a house valuation. If you have the child arrangements formalised, you won't be as worried about saying no - if she asks you to pay unreasonable sums of money.
But if she won't go to mediation then it would be hard to get a consent order for Child Arrangements.
However you can go for a MIAM (first mediation session on your own) for Child Arrangements and explain to the mediator you want Child Arrangements formalising. The mediator then invites your ex. If your ex declines to go then you get signed off mediation and are free to apply for a Child Arrangements order on the terms you want. Eg 4 nights a fortnight, 2 weeks in the summer and maybe some days over Christmas? And perhaps extra days in other school holidays?
So your ex is earning a lot more than you, but wanting you to go halves on things on top of CM. That doesn't seem very fair. Mind you having to pay CM doesn't seem fair either if she's earning more than you! But that's the law for you.
It sounds like the typical thing where she maybe wants the finances agreed first. Once the finances are sorted legally it can be hard to get the Child Arrangements sorted legally. Sometimes for a Dad, it can be better getting the Child Arrangements formalised first - then the ex can't use the kids as leverage to get a better financial deal. But don't know what your ex is like.
If the house was sold or she bought you out, could you afford to buy another place with the equity and your income, while still paying child maintenance? I think this is why some Dads end up working less - to have more time to see the kids and to pay less CM!
So she won't go to mediation. And she's stalling on the house being valued. Not quite sure how that adds up as she can't get the finances sorted without a house valuation being agreed. So maybe your focus right now should be to ask her to formalise the child arrangements in a consent order and then sort out the divorce finances once she's happy to do a house valuation. If you have the child arrangements formalised, you won't be as worried about saying no - if she asks you to pay unreasonable sums of money.
But if she won't go to mediation then it would be hard to get a consent order for Child Arrangements.
However you can go for a MIAM (first mediation session on your own) for Child Arrangements and explain to the mediator you want Child Arrangements formalising. The mediator then invites your ex. If your ex declines to go then you get signed off mediation and are free to apply for a Child Arrangements order on the terms you want. Eg 4 nights a fortnight, 2 weeks in the summer and maybe some days over Christmas? And perhaps extra days in other school holidays?
Hi Sid,
Sorry to hear about your situation.
Agree with Ash, seems like you need to get a child arrangement order sorted.
I’m also a contractor and have been speaking to a solicitor about my ability to commit to non-CM payments given how vulnerable my employment situation is as I work on monthly work orders with only a weeks notice and the same as you in that if I don’t work, I don’t get paid, even for holidays.
ATB
Sorry to hear about your situation.
Agree with Ash, seems like you need to get a child arrangement order sorted.
I’m also a contractor and have been speaking to a solicitor about my ability to commit to non-CM payments given how vulnerable my employment situation is as I work on monthly work orders with only a weeks notice and the same as you in that if I don’t work, I don’t get paid, even for holidays.
ATB
On another note as I currently provide a contribution which includes food when the children live with their mother could I also request a contribution back when they live with me on the Friday, Sat and Sun (every 2 weeks) as I have to buy food for them that I wouldn't eat? This isn't going out to McDonalds this is just standard food shopping.
This is calculated within CM which is why the amount is reduced by the number of days they spend with you. Although the whole system is archaic.'
I think you need to see it a bit differently maybe - that you will be assessed to pay a certain amount of CM based on your income and that should cover all contributions for the children at their Mother's home. What you do at your home is your business - you might want to go clothes shopping with them yourself or even have your own sets of clothing at your house (necessary sometimes). So maybe it just needs formaling. If you do a CMS calculation online, what does it say you should be paying? It is better to transfer one amount of CMS per month rather than just pay for things as that won't count as CMS being paid.
I think you need to see it a bit differently maybe - that you will be assessed to pay a certain amount of CM based on your income and that should cover all contributions for the children at their Mother's home. What you do at your home is your business - you might want to go clothes shopping with them yourself or even have your own sets of clothing at your house (necessary sometimes). So maybe it just needs formaling. If you do a CMS calculation online, what does it say you should be paying? It is better to transfer one amount of CMS per month rather than just pay for things as that won't count as CMS being paid.
Hi Ash, currently waiting for CMS to be formalised however currently looking at £978 pcm for both my girls. Whilst I wait for the wheels to turn in CMS my ex is asking for an increase on a current contribution that I pay pcm. The contribution is based on the fact that they live with their mum 68% of the time and with me 32% of the time (equates to 118 days.) She is saying that her food bill has gone up to £350 pcm and therefore wants me to contribute 32% of the food costs whilst they are living with her however she is refusing to reciprocate when the girls live with me and I have to buy food that I wouldn't normally eat. Its not a huge amount but the kids go through nuggets, chips, crisps etc quite quickly. Should I be asking for a small contribution towards my costs?
Normally I'd say - just politely respond saying you will pay the CMS assessed amount, which is based on your income, and outside of that, both parents need to provide for the children when with them. But you will continue to pay x in addition (was it school fees?)
However, as you don't have a court order, she is likely to retaliate and reduce your time with the kids if you send that at the moment. So I'd try and get a Child Arrangements order asap. Then she can't stop the kids seeing you and you're in a stronger postion to say - no.
I can't see any point in asking for a contribution towards your costs as that's just effectively cancelling out what she's asking for extra. But you may need to tread softly until you get the Child Arrangements order. Have you applied yet?
You know she is earning more than you so technically CM shouldn't apply at all, but that's the law. Perhaps for now you could send a polite friendly message saying something like
"Hi. I am simply unable to pay more at the moment. I am currently paying a lot more than the Child Maintenance Assessment, which is based on my income. It's difficult with the cost of living and we both need to feed the children when with us and can only suggest we budget carefully for now."
However, as you don't have a court order, she is likely to retaliate and reduce your time with the kids if you send that at the moment. So I'd try and get a Child Arrangements order asap. Then she can't stop the kids seeing you and you're in a stronger postion to say - no.
I can't see any point in asking for a contribution towards your costs as that's just effectively cancelling out what she's asking for extra. But you may need to tread softly until you get the Child Arrangements order. Have you applied yet?
You know she is earning more than you so technically CM shouldn't apply at all, but that's the law. Perhaps for now you could send a polite friendly message saying something like
"Hi. I am simply unable to pay more at the moment. I am currently paying a lot more than the Child Maintenance Assessment, which is based on my income. It's difficult with the cost of living and we both need to feed the children when with us and can only suggest we budget carefully for now."
You still have a bit of leverage then. If she realises it's a lot more than the CMS assessment she is less likely to stop the kids seeing you in case you start paying less (ie the CMS assessment rate). But if she did stop the kids seeing you then absolutely reduce it to the CMS assessed rate only. But do get the Child Arrangements order under way as this will help prevent all this badgering for money and you can say no without risk then.
Have you had mediation for Child Arrangements or been signed off? If not then start that asap. You have the first appointment on your own (MIAM). Purely about formalising arrangements for the kids (don't mention the finances side - that's separate). Ideally you could reach an agreement to be put into a consent order so there is no need to actually apply to or go to court, but it's still an equally valid Child Arrangements order. If she won't agree to consent order then it suggests she might not be reliable over agreements. If she won't go to mediation then you get signed off and apply to court on a C100 to ask for the current arrangements to be formalised in a court order. If doing that, you need to be careful with the wording as the application is read by Cafcass. So run it by someone on here.
Have you had mediation for Child Arrangements or been signed off? If not then start that asap. You have the first appointment on your own (MIAM). Purely about formalising arrangements for the kids (don't mention the finances side - that's separate). Ideally you could reach an agreement to be put into a consent order so there is no need to actually apply to or go to court, but it's still an equally valid Child Arrangements order. If she won't agree to consent order then it suggests she might not be reliable over agreements. If she won't go to mediation then you get signed off and apply to court on a C100 to ask for the current arrangements to be formalised in a court order. If doing that, you need to be careful with the wording as the application is read by Cafcass. So run it by someone on here.
What you spend and what she spends on food are not relevant to the CMS calculation. It only takes into account the number of nights children spend with the paying parent, and the paying parents income. Allowable expenses are processed by the CMS, they vary the amount you have to pay accordingly. But this is for stuff like travel and mortgage for a property she still claims a stake in, not for hamburgers and t-shirts...
If your arrangement is to be based on the CMS calculation, that amount includes your contributions to everything. The receiving parent is not liable to contribute to your general expenditure on time spent with you, that is already reflected in the calculation (as far as they are concerned).
If you enter into arrangements to pay additional amounts, that could set a precedent for the ongoing arrangement when the time comes.
If your arrangement is to be based on the CMS calculation, that amount includes your contributions to everything. The receiving parent is not liable to contribute to your general expenditure on time spent with you, that is already reflected in the calculation (as far as they are concerned).
If you enter into arrangements to pay additional amounts, that could set a precedent for the ongoing arrangement when the time comes.