Advice for complex case

[Hobnob]

Hi all, I've been reading for a long time and the wealth of information has helped massively. I'm going to keep this vague as walls have ears as the saying goes.

Bit of background; Acrimonious split due to an affair, I'm with my partner I left my marriage for and we are happy. Ex wife has never got over this, it's now many years since this happend and the level of hatred has not subsided, in fact it gets worse weekly.

I emigrated to a different country after the split and was having regular contact with my kids via WhatsApp. Covid definitely wasn't on my side as you can imagine due to travel restrictions etc but as I was having regular contact with the kids and explaining the travel problems I thought all was well.

Fast forward to being able to see my kids and now things have taken a turn for the worst. My 2 oldest have cut me off and my youngest whom I have face to face contact with has pretty much cut me off between visits.

Had the Cafcass safeguarding call and they have stated no safeguarding issues. Ex didn't respond with any allegations on the C100 form.

I am now getting emails with veiled threats regarding smacking one of my children and there has been talk in the past of sexual abuse towards my ex wife.

She has point blank refused to co parent with me and treats our kids as possessions. Whilst no concerns have been raised by Cafcass I'm worried she may start mud slinging. What I've read about the FHDRA is that no evidence may be produced and the judge will decide the direction. Mediation has failed so that is not an option.

So my questions are, if she raises these allegations when can she do so? And if she point blank refuses to co parent how will this stand in court.

I feel like I'm climbing a never ending mountain at the minute

 

[InvisibleIntellectual]

Let me confirm


No safeguarding issues
Where you are is subject to Hague Convention
You have proof of abuse

 

[Ash]

Similar from me Which country are you in? Cafcass has said no safeguarding issues (therefore ignore your ex's veiled threats). If she tries to bring them up later she won't get far as she didn't say anything to Cafcass. However she might have discovered that she'll get a free solicitor if she claims abuse so - it's slightly possible her solicitor my try to cause delays at first hearing saying Mrs Ex alleges this and she didn't say anything before because she was embarrassed blah blah. IF that happened and the Judge accepted their concerns, then what is likely to happen next is either a Fact find hearing (to hear allegations and hopefully dismiss them) or a Section 7 report (more in depth Cafcass report where both parents are interviewed and they talk to the kids in school and check police and Social services history).

Which effectively delays things - and that is what these things are about. Delay is the enemy - (the longer you don't see the children and the more rubbish they are told) - and delay is the strategy of the other side.

However I think as Cafcass have said no safeguarding issues you could argue for that at first hearing and say that any subsequent allegation your ex makes is retaliation and "afterthought".

I'm a bit confused about face to face visits with the youngest if you're in a different country.

So yeah your ex is a woman scorned - and will probably always be upset - but that doesn't give her the right to turn the kids against you. It sounds like parental alienation (whether intentional or uninentional). How old are the eldest two? Dispute resolution might help at first hearing.

 

[Hobnob]

Let me confirm


No safeguarding issues
Where you are is subject to Hague Convention
You have proof of abuse

Cafcass did safe guarding checks including social services and police checks. Nothing came back and their letter states that there are no safeguarding issues.

I live in a European country that is definitely subject to the Hague convention.

I'm not sure what you mean by proof of abuse? It is the ex that is likely to throw these allegations. I was with her a long time and their were never any incidents other than rows occasionally. This is backed up by the Cafcass report as they did a criminal record check and nothing came back.

 

[Hobnob]

Similar from me Which country are you in? Cafcass has said no safeguarding issues (therefore ignore your ex's veiled threats). If she tries to bring them up later she won't get far as she didn't say anything to Cafcass. However she might have discovered that she'll get a free solicitor if she claims abuse so - it's slightly possible her solicitor my try to cause delays at first hearing saying Mrs Ex alleges this and she didn't say anything before because she was embarrassed blah blah. IF that happened and the Judge accepted their concerns, then what is likely to happen next is either a Fact find hearing (to hear allegations and hopefully dismiss them) or a Section 7 report (more in depth Cafcass report where both parents are interviewed and they talk to the kids in school and check police and Social services history).

Which effectively delays things - and that is what these things are about. Delay is the enemy - (the longer you don't see the children and the more rubbish they are told) - and delay is the strategy of the other side.

However I think as Cafcass have said no safeguarding issues you could argue for that at first hearing and say that any subsequent allegation your ex makes is retaliation and "afterthought".

I'm a bit confused about face to face visits with the youngest if you're in a different country.

So yeah your ex is a woman scorned - and will probably always be upset - but that doesn't give her the right to turn the kids against you. It sounds like parental alienation (whether intentional or uninentional). How old are the eldest two? Dispute resolution might help at first hearing.

I'd rather not say where I live due to ex potentially snooping but it is not that far from the uk hence why I can return to the UK with relative ease. This is how I see my youngest when she allows.

It is definitely alienation, fortunately my youngest is resisting but my other 2 have succumbed for now. I have accused her of parental alienation on the C100 form and Cafcass noted it on their report

 

[C&ADad]

I'd rather not say where I live due to ex potentially snooping but it is not that far from the uk hence why I can return to the UK with relative ease. This is how I see my youngest when she allows.

It is definitely alienation, fortunately my youngest is resisting but my other 2 have succumbed for now. I have accused her of parental alienation on the C100 form and Cafcass noted it on their report

Hobnob, your case sounds uncannily similar to mine.

Do you have a date in court after submitting the C100? It took me over a year to get alienation confirmed in court, and even now it doesn't seem to have made much difference, if anything its made mum more entrenched.

One thing I do know is that early intervention is critical in a case like this, hence me asking if you had a court date yet.

 

[Hobnob]

I chased the court on Monday and they told me that although they had all the information required the case hadn't been listed. Called them yesterday and they informed me there is a safeguarding and gatekeeping hearing today. See what the court decide to do from here.

 

[Ash]

I think that sounds positive actually - if it's a safeguarding and gatekeeping hearing (this is quite a new thing - these gatekeeping hearings with neither of you present). It might be that they are taking the parental alienation seriously. Do you know if your ex has made any allegations? Presumably you've seen her response to your C100 on her C7 form? What did the Cafcass letter say after the phone calls (did it mention allegations by your ex?).

If you've both made allegations that will be why they are doing a gatekeeping hearing. I know you've submitted the C100 now but usual advice is not to directly accuse parental alienation - even when it is. Either call it something else or describe what's happening. Because Cafcass think that anyone who accuses alienation might be an alienator themselves - because that's what alienators do - project and accuse the other person. It's a really tricky area to negotiate. If you're straight up and honest about what's happening - which seems normal to us - the court is suspicious about anyone making allegations about the other one. But I hope they are taking it seriously.

The other reason is - parental alienation allegations are very high profile these days with a prominent academic from Womens Aid claiming that it is abusive Dads who claim alienation as a leverage type thing (while at the same time denying it exists!). Cafcass know it exists, as do courts, but there is this negative propaganda going on about it at the moment.

After this hearing they will issue something I believe, that you should get a copy of, with their recommendations to the court for the first hearing. But it's a bit much a first hearing date hasn't been listed yet.

I read your initial post again and although you said she hadn't made any allegations to Cafcass I am wondering if she did and they just haven't revealed them (as you say she has hinted at things). If both sides make allegations they sometimes decide to only have things sent directly to the court to protect the other party or the children in case anything is true.

But it's very common for the ex to make allegations as it means they'll get legal aid and free lawyers. Problem is if both sides make allegations they don't know who to believe.

But now you've said she's alienating the kids - and it will be clear you believe that - stick to your guns but I'd advise not using the term "parental alienation" ongoing. Say things like - children acting out of character suddenly, you think your ex is "turning them against you", you're concerned about their behaviour and emotional wellbeing. That kind of thing. So that keeps it child focused rather than sounding like your ex doing something to you (even though she is). You also need to show, if given the opportunity at a hearing or in a statement - that you're the one that wants to try and resolve things. Cafcass see "a good parent" as one who tries to be amicable despite what the other one is doing, so the kids don't feel in the middle. But it's not easy when you haven't even had chance to present evidence or have a hearing and it's all based on he said she said at the moment.

As you say, see what the court decide to do from here. Hopefully you'll find out soon.

 

[Hobnob]

I think that sounds positive actually - if it's a safeguarding and gatekeeping hearing (this is quite a new thing - these gatekeeping hearings with neither of you present). It might be that they are taking the parental alienation seriously. Do you know if your ex has made any allegations? Presumably you've seen her response to your C100 on her C7 form? What did the Cafcass letter say after the phone calls (did it mention allegations by your ex?).

If you've both made allegations that will be why they are doing a gatekeeping hearing. I know you've submitted the C100 now but usual advice is not to directly accuse parental alienation - even when it is. Either call it something else or describe what's happening. Because Cafcass think that anyone who accuses alienation might be an alienator themselves - because that's what alienators do - project and accuse the other person. It's a really tricky area to negotiate. If you're straight up and honest about what's happening - which seems normal to us - the court is suspicious about anyone making allegations about the other one. But I hope they are taking it seriously.

The other reason is - parental alienation allegations are very high profile these days with a prominent academic from Womens Aid claiming that it is abusive Dads who claim alienation as a leverage type thing (while at the same time denying it exists!). Cafcass know it exists, as do courts, but there is this negative propaganda going on about it at the moment.

After this hearing they will issue something I believe, that you should get a copy of, with their recommendations to the court for the first hearing. But it's a bit much a first hearing date hasn't been listed yet.

I read your initial post again and although you said she hadn't made any allegations to Cafcass I am wondering if she did and they just haven't revealed them (as you say she has hinted at things). If both sides make allegations they sometimes decide to only have things sent directly to the court to protect the other party or the children in case anything is true.

But it's very common for the ex to make allegations as it means they'll get legal aid and free lawyers. Problem is if both sides make allegations they don't know who to believe.

But now you've said she's alienating the kids - and it will be clear you believe that - stick to your guns but I'd advise not using the term "parental alienation" ongoing. Say things like - children acting out of character suddenly, you think your ex is "turning them against you", you're concerned about their behaviour and emotional wellbeing. That kind of thing. So that keeps it child focused rather than sounding like your ex doing something to you (even though she is). You also need to show, if given the opportunity at a hearing or in a statement - that you're the one that wants to try and resolve things. Cafcass see "a good parent" as one who tries to be amicable despite what the other one is doing, so the kids don't feel in the middle. But it's not easy when you haven't even had chance to present evidence or have a hearing and it's all based on he said she said at the moment.

As you say, see what the court decide to do from here. Hopefully you'll find out soon.

Thanks Ash.

Ex made no allegations on the C100 form but put a note saying she has things to say but not yet . Cafcass report had no allegations other than from me with the parental alienation.

The report stated no safeguarding issues and they had done a police check etc. Since applying to court the ex has got worse and has not started saying allegations to me via email.

 

[Hobnob]

I think that sounds positive actually - if it's a safeguarding and gatekeeping hearing (this is quite a new thing - these gatekeeping hearings with neither of you present). It might be that they are taking the parental alienation seriously. Do you know if your ex has made any allegations? Presumably you've seen her response to your C100 on her C7 form? What did the Cafcass letter say after the phone calls (did it mention allegations by your ex?).

If you've both made allegations that will be why they are doing a gatekeeping hearing. I know you've submitted the C100 now but usual advice is not to directly accuse parental alienation - even when it is. Either call it something else or describe what's happening. Because Cafcass think that anyone who accuses alienation might be an alienator themselves - because that's what alienators do - project and accuse the other person. It's a really tricky area to negotiate. If you're straight up and honest about what's happening - which seems normal to us - the court is suspicious about anyone making allegations about the other one. But I hope they are taking it seriously.

The other reason is - parental alienation allegations are very high profile these days with a prominent academic from Womens Aid claiming that it is abusive Dads who claim alienation as a leverage type thing (while at the same time denying it exists!). Cafcass know it exists, as do courts, but there is this negative propaganda going on about it at the moment.

After this hearing they will issue something I believe, that you should get a copy of, with their recommendations to the court for the first hearing. But it's a bit much a first hearing date hasn't been listed yet.

I read your initial post again and although you said she hadn't made any allegations to Cafcass I am wondering if she did and they just haven't revealed them (as you say she has hinted at things). If both sides make allegations they sometimes decide to only have things sent directly to the court to protect the other party or the children in case anything is true.

But it's very common for the ex to make allegations as it means they'll get legal aid and free lawyers. Problem is if both sides make allegations they don't know who to believe.

But now you've said she's alienating the kids - and it will be clear you believe that - stick to your guns but I'd advise not using the term "parental alienation" ongoing. Say things like - children acting out of character suddenly, you think your ex is "turning them against you", you're concerned about their behaviour and emotional wellbeing. That kind of thing. So that keeps it child focused rather than sounding like your ex doing something to you (even though she is). You also need to show, if given the opportunity at a hearing or in a statement - that you're the one that wants to try and resolve things. Cafcass see "a good parent" as one who tries to be amicable despite what the other one is doing, so the kids don't feel in the middle. But it's not easy when you haven't even had chance to present evidence or have a hearing and it's all based on he said she said at the moment.

As you say, see what the court decide to do from here. Hopefully you'll find out soon.

To add to what I said. I have tried everything to get her help. I've suggested a co-parenting app, refused. I asked if she would allow the children and us to attend family counseling, refused. I have tried to explain why I feel what I do and how she can help, refused.

She is incredibly hostile and manipulative but fortunately I have everything in writing. She has also blatantly lied on many occasions via email and I have absolute proof she is lying. I am keeping it child focused as I genuinely believe she is causing harm to our children and will show this to the court in a nonconfrontational and child focused way

 

[Ash]

That all sounds good and you'll have evidence to show everything you tried and her hostile reactions. Feeling aggrieved is no valid reason to alienate children (there is no valid reason). If the Cafcass letter said no welfare issues though, that is confusing that they are having a gatekeeping hearing over welfare. It may be to protect the children - because if your ex is alienating, then they will want to keep some information from her or she could step it up with the kids.

 

[Hobnob]

So I had a visit at the weekend and managed to get my eldest daughter to come with me despite the mother trying her best to stop it from happening. Prior to this weekend my eldest had cut me off completely since September last year. We all had a fantastic time obviously and my two daughters were constantly asking if they could stay with me, mother has said no do I let them know they couldn't because mum said no ... Eldest daughter was messaging me all day yesterday, telling me she loves me and can't wait to see me next time and also asked mum if she could stay for the 3 nights when I return next month.

Obviously there had to be a consequence of having a great time and the email came. Mum has said eldest daughter was upset and confused all evening and that she thinks I don't like her and prefer her sister. Apparently she's also said she may not want to come with me next time. Funny that as she was constantly asking when I'm next coming back, where I'm staying and what we will do.

I'm waiting for a hearing but is there anything I can do in the meantime to stop this behaviour from the mother?

 

[Ash]

Keep records of all this. Your daughter is in the middle as well and will be under pressure probably. But it sounds like they are feeling hopeful if they realise you're doing something about it (ie going to court). I think I would always say - yes of course I always want you to stay with me - I'm getting someone to try and help sort things out so you can do that (because she may have been told that you don't want her). That isn't directly saying the ex won't let her or saying bad stuff about the ex. But at least your daughter will know it's not true if she's been told you don't want her.

This is how alienation works - if the kids get a hard time (consequences) for having a nice time, it's quite a deterrant. They're dependant on Mum to provide for them day to day and treat them ok, and aren't in much of a position to stand up to her. So they can fear saying they want to see you in case it makes her angry.

Are they aware there is something happening? (eg the court application). I was always told not to mention "court" (my ex does - says "Dad's taking me to court" as if I'm being nasty to her). But to say "asking someone to help sort out a few things that Mum and I aren't agreed on". It kind of gave him hope that I was trying to sort something out. But they still get nervous of standing up to her in case it doesn't work out.

If the gatekeeping hearing hadn't happened yet, you could have sent a position statement for it updating the situation. But it has happened. And you haven't had a court date yet have you?

But what I suggest is sending a very brief email to the court, marked for the attention of the Judge, updating the situation and requesting a hearing as soon as possible for interim time to be ordered.

It needs to be carefully worded because technically anything you send to the court should be shared with your ex (they may or may not send her a copy depending on what they think is going on). And also bear in mind they can't necessarily believe what a parent says without evidence.

But it may help get an earlier hearing listed and it's on file for the hearing.

If you've claimed parental alienation though, and let them know your daughter's have said they want to stay with you, they may say - well that isn't parental alienation, that is just ex saying no to them staying with you. So you need to be careful. On the other hand they could see it as attempted alienation. I wouldn't mention parental alienation again at least for now, but focus on facts and situations.

So you could maybe send something like this. Do you have a case number? Assume so. so heading would be FAO of the The Judge Case number .........

"I understand from the court there was a gatekeeping hearing on x date, and write with an update to the current situation. When going to visit my son on x day, I managed to persuade my daughters to come as well and the day went very well, we all had a lovely time and they were asking me if they could come and stay with me next time. Since then my daughters have been messaging me telling me they love me and want to stay but Mum has said no. I have now received an email from their Mother telling me they didn't enjoy the time, were upset, and may not want to see me next time.

I feel this is a sensitive situation for the children at the moment, as they are in the middle, and respectfully ask that a hearing date be listed as soon as possible please, for an interim order.

I would be grateful if this email could be passed to the Judge.

Yours sincerely"

 

[Hobnob]

Keep records of all this. Your daughter is in the middle as well and will be under pressure probably. But it sounds like they are feeling hopeful if they realise you're doing something about it (ie going to court). I think I would always say - yes of course I always want you to stay with me - I'm getting someone to try and help sort things out so you can do that (because she may have been told that you don't want her). That isn't directly saying the ex won't let her or saying bad stuff about the ex. But at least your daughter will know it's not true if she's been told you don't want her.

This is how alienation works - if the kids get a hard time (consequences) for having a nice time, it's quite a deterrant. They're dependant on Mum to provide for them day to day and treat them ok, and aren't in much of a position to stand up to her. So they can fear saying they want to see you in case it makes her angry.

Are they aware there is something happening? (eg the court application). I was always told not to mention "court" (my ex does - says "Dad's taking me to court" as if I'm being nasty to her). But to say "asking someone to help sort out a few things that Mum and I aren't agreed on". It kind of gave him hope that I was trying to sort something out. But they still get nervous of standing up to her in case it doesn't work out.

If the gatekeeping hearing hadn't happened yet, you could have sent a position statement for it updating the situation. But it has happened. And you haven't had a court date yet have you?

But what I suggest is sending a very brief email to the court, marked for the attention of the Judge, updating the situation and requesting a hearing as soon as possible for interim time to be ordered.

It needs to be carefully worded because technically anything you send to the court should be shared with your ex (they may or may not send her a copy depending on what they think is going on). And also bear in mind they can't necessarily believe what a parent says without evidence.

But it may help get an earlier hearing listed and it's on file for the hearing.

If you've claimed parental alienation though, and let them know your daughter's have said they want to stay with you, they may say - well that isn't parental alienation, that is just ex saying no to them staying with you. So you need to be careful. On the other hand they could see it as attempted alienation. I wouldn't mention parental alienation again at least for now, but focus on facts and situations.

So you could maybe send something like this. Do you have a case number? Assume so. so heading would be FAO of the The Judge Case number .........

"I understand from the court there was a gatekeeping hearing on x date, and write with an update to the current situation. When going to visit my son on x day, I managed to persuade my daughters to come as well and the day went very well, we all had a lovely time and they were asking me if they could come and stay with me next time. Since then my daughters have been messaging me telling me they love me and want to stay but Mum has said no. I have now received an email from their Mother telling me they didn't enjoy the time, were upset, and may not want to see me next time.

I feel this is a sensitive situation for the children at the moment, as they are in the middle, and respectfully ask that a hearing date be listed as soon as possible please, for an interim order.

I would be grateful if this email could be passed to the Judge.

Yours sincerely"

Thank for your advice Ash I'll send an email to the judge. The ex has been very stupid on so many occasions as she has put everything in writing. There are many lies and inconsistencies, backtracking etc. A lot of it is completely nonsensical and I have absolute proof of what she is saying is not true.

My eldest daughter had spoken to me since September last year, no reason given. I managed to get her attention at pick up and persuaded her to come out with me, it didn't take much persuasion at all.

She was like a different child whilst with me and was so affectionate and loving. My little girl was back. She asked multiple times if she could stay and I said unfortunately not this time as mummy has said no, she then said "it's ok I'll call her and tell her I'm staying" I simply said not this time, maybe ask mum if you can next time. She was chomping at the bit to come with me at pick up the following day and literally dived into the car. She was asking about my next visit and discussing what we will do etc. When I dropped them back she was messaging me telling me she loves me, sending love hearts etc, everything you'd expect a daughter to do. A few hours later I get an email saying she thinks I don't like her and that I prefer her younger sister and that I spoil her younger sister. This is absolutely not true as I love them both equally and made sure they had exactly the same things whilst were together.

They don't know about the court case from me and they have never mentioned it so I don't know if she has said anything to them. I'm not even allowed to tell them where I live, I have this in writing, so I'm very careful with what I say.

And yes the parental alienation is full steam ahead

 

[Ash]

Just be careful not to sound critical of the Mother - wording can be so tricky. Keep to the facts of what happened but I think it's reasonable to say your daughter wanted to come and stay with you but your ex claims she doesn't want to. If anything sounds like a jibe at the Mum then they kind of think you're dissing her and that undermines the other things you let them know, You could also add something like, - I'm continuing to try and reach agreement with the Childrens Mother but it has not been productive.

 

[C&ADad]

Thank for your advice Ash I'll send an email to the judge. The ex has been very stupid on so many occasions as she has put everything in writing. There are many lies and inconsistencies, backtracking etc. A lot of it is completely nonsensical and I have absolute proof of what she is saying is not true.

My eldest daughter had spoken to me since September last year, no reason given. I managed to get her attention at pick up and persuaded her to come out with me, it didn't take much persuasion at all.

She was like a different child whilst with me and was so affectionate and loving. My little girl was back. She asked multiple times if she could stay and I said unfortunately not this time as mummy has said no, she then said "it's ok I'll call her and tell her I'm staying" I simply said not this time, maybe ask mum if you can next time. She was chomping at the bit to come with me at pick up the following day and literally dived into the car. She was asking about my next visit and discussing what we will do etc. When I dropped them back she was messaging me telling me she loves me, sending love hearts etc, everything you'd expect a daughter to do. A few hours later I get an email saying she thinks I don't like her and that I prefer her younger sister and that I spoil her younger sister. This is absolutely not true as I love them both equally and made sure they had exactly the same things whilst were together.

They don't know about the court case from me and they have never mentioned it so I don't know if she has said anything to them. I'm not even allowed to tell them where I live, I have this in writing, so I'm very careful with what I say.

And yes the parental alienation is full steam ahead

Hobnob, this is a total minefield and as Ash says you have to rise above this, no matter how hard it is. Just on my own case, I went from "she scares me, I just want to be with you", to "I don't mind if I don't see you again" in a matter of hours. Similar to you- and I still remember the date- my child came to see me and it was so nice that I sent a text to my parents saying "I've got my daughter back!".. then a few days later she cut me totally dead.

One of the biggest battles you'll have is to try & 'not listen'. Retain your love for your kids, but filter out the words which are the product of pressure & influence from mum. You have to do this, because one day your kids will likely be embarrassed of what they said and it will be a cause of shame for them, and they'll need you to be there for them. Mum wants you to break, she wants you to fold, she probably knows she can't break you mentally so what you're seeing now happens. Don't question your own actions, know the truth and don't let anything else in, focus on getting the court to see the reality.

Its great advice from Ash- walk into a court talking about 'parental alienation' without some kind of expert to back that up & it is unlikely to go well at all. Don't use those words unless you have someone independent to back it up. Document everything, and highlight the change you've seen. With me it was a case of "here's what it was like before, here is what its like now, there has been no abuse or violence, so in the kids' best interests we have to get to the bottom of what happened in the middle to understand what is driving this change, which will & is only ending up with the kids suffering". You don't have to go straight down the alienation route to show a judge that something very wrong is happening that needs to be looked into- don't say it, but show it.

And time is definitely of the essence- hopefully you'll get into court soon. Any updates let us know.

 

[Hobnob]

Hobnob, this is a total minefield and as Ash says you have to rise above this, no matter how hard it is. Just on my own case, I went from "she scares me, I just want to be with you", to "I don't mind if I don't see you again" in a matter of hours. Similar to you- and I still remember the date- my child came to see me and it was so nice that I sent a text to my parents saying "I've got my daughter back!".. then a few days later she cut me totally dead.

One of the biggest battles you'll have is to try & 'not listen'. Retain your love for your kids, but filter out the words which are the product of pressure & influence from mum. You have to do this, because one day your kids will likely be embarrassed of what they said and it will be a cause of shame for them, and they'll need you to be there for them. Mum wants you to break, she wants you to fold, she probably knows she can't break you mentally so what you're seeing now happens. Don't question your own actions, know the truth and don't let anything else in, focus on getting the court to see the reality.

Its great advice from Ash- walk into a court talking about 'parental alienation' without some kind of expert to back that up & it is unlikely to go well at all. Don't use those words unless you have someone independent to back it up. Document everything, and highlight the change you've seen. With me it was a case of "here's what it was like before, here is what its like now, there has been no abuse or violence, so in the kids' best interests we have to get to the bottom of what happened in the middle to understand what is driving this change, which will & is only ending up with the kids suffering". You don't have to go straight down the alienation route to show a judge that something very wrong is happening that needs to be looked into- don't say it, but show it.

And time is definitely of the essence- hopefully you'll get into court soon. Any updates let us know.

With hindsight and after reading many posts I regret putting alienation on the C100 form but it's done now. I have a very clear plan of how I'm going to approach this, I'm going to show what is happening to my children in a child focused none confrontational way.

The best thing I ever did was keeping contact via email only. I've got mountains of evidence and refusal to get help, co-parent and so much more. The ex does herself no favours as she sends emails at night when she is drunk. She has given herself more than enough rope now. I'm just frustrated because no one has heard my side yet

 

[Ash]

Don't worry. Just don't mention it again and do as you say. I think the time courts don't take you seriously is when someone constantly rants about parental alienation and keeps saying that's what it is. Courts like to decide this themselves IME - and you just feed them the clear information that makes that obvious. Although I did find my barrister at final hearing openly said the Mother was alienating - which I couldn't personally have done with authority.

 

[C&ADad]

With hindsight and after reading many posts I regret putting alienation on the C100 form but it's done now. I have a very clear plan of how I'm going to approach this, I'm going to show what is happening to my children in a child focused none confrontational way.

The best thing I ever did was keeping contact via email only. I've got mountains of evidence and refusal to get help, co-parent and so much more. The ex does herself no favours as she sends emails at night when she is drunk. She has given herself more than enough rope now. I'm just frustrated because no one has heard my side yet

No need for regrets now, all about the future & next steps. That was only the form, just going from my experience it will likely be much more about your presentation on the day & evidence you show when you actually get to the hearing itself, so if you don't repeatedly mention the dreaded word 'alienation' I don't think that will go against you at all. Your approach is spot on- and like I said, I know every case is different but I was told that this is a good template, and it certainly worked for me...

1. Here's how the relationship with the kids was (backed up by nice texts, cards, photos etc)
2. Here's what happened next (your evidence from mum- nasty mails etc)
3. Here's how the relationship with the kids is now (backed with evidence if you have it)

ie a totally unjustifiable loss of quality time & contact, which can only be attributable to 2.

I hear you about the frustration, I've been in court umpteen times listening to lies, thinking "I have actual proof that these are lies on my phone in my pocket, right here in this room!", but nobody ever even questioned what mum was saying. But the time does come.. eventually! We all know that the system is flawed, but in my experience if you come across well and have well organised & well presented evidence, then you will be heard- no matter what accusations are thrown around by the other side especially if they can't be substantiated.

Sounds like you have the approach just right- not rising to any temptation to get sucked into a war of words with mum, ignore her & be child-focussed and factual all the way... that will also have the added factor that mum may well get even more frustrated that she's not getting the attention, meaning more drunken nasty mails, which is more good evidence for you down the road.

 

[Ash]

I've been in court umpteen times listening to lies, thinking "I have actual proof that these are lies on my phone in my pocket, right here in this room!",

I know that feeling. Took a folder with emails in to my first hearing. Cafcass accusing me of harrassing Mum due to things Mum had said - I said no that didn't happen - it was a simple email exchange to arrange a pick up - I can show you the emails if you want, I have them here - and picked up the folder. No! She said. It's totally bizarre that the don't want to see proof and know who is lying! It's all a ridiculous game of jumping through hoops until final hearing.