Should I exercise PR and protect my kids? Or will court just return them to her?

[Smurf88]

Hi,

After a lengthy court process, numerous false allegations from my ex (including DV and Child Abuse) and involvement from Cafcass and ICFA I now have overnight weekend access every fortnight and 50% of holidays with my kids. This arrangement has been in place a year or so. My kids continuously express that they want more time with me but mom refuses. During court process she relocated so kids were too far away for me to get 50/50.

Question is we are now in a situation where kids have made multiple disclosures of mom shouting & swearing at them and even smacking them. SS have said they are experiencing low level abuse and there is not really a lot they can do besides monitor situation and offer support to mom (smacking is not condoned but not illegal). Mom has had some support from local early help team but continues to parent poorly. There are signs of emotional abuse and neglect but nothing substancial enough for SS to act at the moment. SS have suggested that I should exercise my PR to safeguard the kids (if I believe kids are afraid of mom or wish to change residence) but I am afraid to go back to court. Cafcass fell for all moms lies last time and even at final hearing the only time i saw/spoke with them was in the court room, they spent the rest of the day, with mom in her waiting room. It was only for ICFA involvement that I got decent access I think. I am working towards moving closer so I can get 50/50 so I don't want to lose what little access I have, but I can't sleep for worrying about my kids being poorly treated and not getting the childhood they deserve. I suffered silently for years at the hand of my ex, whilst rarely physically abusive she was very controlling and would constantly belittle and berate me, I know what she is like and I know the mental torture, if nothing else, she is inflicting on my kids.

What are the chances of Cafcass still siding with mom if kids have made multiple disclosures to SS and teachers that mom smacks them and can be 'scary' when she goes crazy? If I breach the order, keep the kids and apply for an urgent change of residence is it all going to backfire and end up with me getting less access than I have now?

Kids are 6 and 10 (boys). I live with my partner and our 2 young children.

Anyone been in a similar situation and exercised PR, not returned kids after access, and applied for an urgent change of residence?

 

[Richie1989]

Hi,

Can I ask would the kids still be able to attend school from where you reside? If the reason for moving closer is to allow this resulting in variation in order then maybe this is important as to not uproot the kids. Would be more like abduction than safeguarding of not done carefully with legal advice. As there been any safeguarding concerns reported from school regarding the kids? Or is it purely reports from you to SS?

Hope it all comes together for the kids and you

 

[Smurf88]

Hi, thanks for your reply. Yes kids school would be too far for them to remain there if they changed residence and this is one of the reasons I am hesitant to act, despite the fact I know my kids are living in a more than sub standard environment. I am waiting to hear back from the school as I emailed them to share concerns and ask if they had recorded or reported any. Kids previous school had made reports to SS but that was a different LA and not long after their mom relocated. Kids are quite behind in school and teachers have reported behavioural issues with children to me on occasion, that has been very out of character, just not sure re. and welfare concerns but hoping they come back to me soon.

 

[mainstay92]

Hi,

After a lengthy court process, numerous false allegations from my ex (including DV and Child Abuse) and involvement from Cafcass and ICFA I now have overnight weekend access every fortnight and 50% of holidays with my kids. This arrangement has been in place a year or so. My kids continuously express that they want more time with me but mom refuses. During court process she relocated so kids were too far away for me to get 50/50.

Question is we are now in a situation where kids have made multiple disclosures of mom shouting & swearing at them and even smacking them. SS have said they are experiencing low level abuse and there is not really a lot they can do besides monitor situation and offer support to mom (smacking is not condoned but not illegal). Mom has had some support from local early help team but continues to parent poorly. There are signs of emotional abuse and neglect but nothing substancial enough for SS to act at the moment. SS have suggested that I should exercise my PR to safeguard the kids (if I believe kids are afraid of mom or wish to change residence) but I am afraid to go back to court. Cafcass fell for all moms lies last time and even at final hearing the only time i saw/spoke with them was in the court room, they spent the rest of the day, with mom in her waiting room. It was only for ICFA involvement that I got decent access I think. I am working towards moving closer so I can get 50/50 so I don't want to lose what little access I have, but I can't sleep for worrying about my kids being poorly treated and not getting the childhood they deserve. I suffered silently for years at the hand of my ex, whilst rarely physically abusive she was very controlling and would constantly belittle and berate me, I know what she is like and I know the mental torture, if nothing else, she is inflicting on my kids.

What are the chances of Cafcass still siding with mom if kids have made multiple disclosures to SS and teachers that mom smacks them and can be 'scary' when she goes crazy? If I breach the order, keep the kids and apply for an urgent change of residence is it all going to backfire and end up with me getting less access than I have now?

Kids are 6 and 10 (boys). I live with my partner and our 2 young children.

Anyone been in a similar situation and exercised PR, not returned kids after access, and applied for an urgent change of residence?

Social Services also have a role to play here if they hearing reports from children that they are scared of their Mother. Have they any plan in place? Been honest unless you have really good solid evidence, I think it's unlikely they will up root the children from both home and school. Has Ss been checking on the kids since Cao order ?

 

[Smurf88]

Social Services also have a role to play here if they hearing reports from children that they are scared of their Mother. Have they any plan in place? Been honest unless you have really good solid evidence, I think it's unlikely they will up root the children from both home and school. Has Ss been checking on the kids since Cao order ?

Kids are known to SS but not under a care plan or anything like that. They told me that mom was offered support/had some support towards the end of last year but Early help team closed the case a few months ago. Guess I am going to have to just sit tight and hope that any damage being done by current situation is not beyond repair and just try and relocate myself so I can increase access and dilute the negative environment they are currently existing in 80-90% of the time.

I have now spoken with the school and the safeguarding lead has confirmed some behaviour issues and they have noticed a few minor issues (Kids wearing clothing in poor condition etc.) but otherwise they are of the belief that they are ok. They have a record of a disclosure made by one of the kids but they didn't take any action on it but are monitoring the situation. They have invited me in to speak with the class teachers so I will go in and see what they say.

 

[Peanut 21]

What frustrates me about this is, if it was the mother raising concerns, the school would be all over it.

 

[mainstay92]

Kids are known to SS but not under a care plan or anything like that. They told me that mom was offered support/had some support towards the end of last year but Early help team closed the case a few months ago. Guess I am going to have to just sit tight and hope that any damage being done by current situation is not beyond repair and just try and relocate myself so I can increase access and dilute the negative environment they are currently existing in 80-90% of the time.

I have now spoken with the school and the safeguarding lead has confirmed some behaviour issues and they have noticed a few minor issues (Kids wearing clothing in poor condition etc.) but otherwise they are of the belief that they are ok. They have a record of a disclosure made by one of the kids but they didn't take any action on it but are monitoring the situation. They have invited me in to speak with the class teachers so I will go in and see what they say.

What if you report mother to Social services so they are back out checking on the children. It's shocking they are doing nothing. As Peanut says it Mother was raising concerns, you would be checked

 

[Smurf88]

I know... guaranteed if I was smacking the kids, or sending them to school hungry and in clothes fit for the bin, I would be labeled as a child abuser and they would all be coming down on me. Mom does it, and it doesn't even seem to be much of a concern/issue. From what I can gather they need to significant injuries to the kids before they can/will do anything.

 

[mainstay92]

I know... guaranteed if I was smacking the kids, or sending them to school hungry and in clothes fit for the bin, I would be labeled as a child abuser and they would all be coming down on me. Mom does it, and it doesn't even seem to be much of a concern/issue. From what I can gather they need to significant injuries to the kids before they can/will do anything.

Yeah and you say anything then it's like oh dad is causing conflict. At the end of the day they are your kids too. It's not right kids going to school hungry or in clothes fit for the bin. We have seen to many cases ignored in the news by schools and ss and yet it continues to happen. I will never understand these mothers though either as a mother should want their children happy and fed. Enjoying their childhood

 

[lunico93x]

Another option is to call/email NSPCC for advice. Initially don't give names, because they have a legal duty to act etc., but they'd be well-placed to advise, and it would show a formal record of your concerns.

 

[Smurf88]

I was thinking about going back to court to try and get the Lives With order replaced with a 'Lives with Both Parents' order and ask for an overnight during the week. Collect from school, drop to school the next morning. It is about an hours drive, which I am fine with but would the courts go for it do you think? At least then I am seeing them every week and not just once a fortnight (currently collect from school fortnightly on a Friday for the weekend). I am hoping as well if I am seeing them more I can help them a bit more with their homework and things and have more contact with school etc. Long term though I think I need to try and move closer to get 50/50 minimum because they need me.

I did contact NSPCC and they advised get legal advice re. change of residence for the kids or more access so the children can spend more time in a positive environment. They said they are petitioning to have smacking banned but at the moment there is still a defence for it within the law.

 

[Ash]

Yes unfortunately there is and they've been talking about banning it for years and nothing has been done yet.

How old are the kids? An hour might be acceptable if they are old enough and depending on the location. Eg an hour in London is seen as ok for a 13 year old I believe. Generally they say no more than 45 minutes drive. Can you get the journey time down a bit?

But yes you could apply for lives with both parents. NSPCC can also make an anonymous report to SS on your behalf btw.